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TOPIC: Straight to Heaven

Straight to Heaven 2 years 7 months ago #44873

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I was talking to some people who believed that when you die, you go straight to heaven.
I don't really believe that....do you? Some people do and they can because it's just my opinion but the Bible says clearly that the dead know nothing. And if they went up to heaven straight away and looked down on us all, do you think they'd be happy? When you think about, heaven wouldn't be a very nice place to be if you looked down from it and watched the devastating things that are happening today in our society. Here are some Bible verses explaining my point:

Revelations 14:13
Then I heard a voice from heaven say, "Write: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on." "Yes," says the Spirit, "they will rest from their labour, for their deeds will follow them."
It's saying that they will rest. They won't go to heaven. They'll just rest.

Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten.

What do you think?
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Straight to Heaven 2 years 7 months ago #45093

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and also somewhere in the Bible it says that the dead in Christ will rise first in the coming of Jesus Christ. How could they rise if they were already in heaven? that's my point
To ride on a horse is to fly without wings. XD
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Straight to Heaven 2 years 7 months ago #45215

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Yup you're right :lol: B)

1st Thessalonians 14: "Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words."
////////////////////////////////////////

You keep me steady when the sky is falling
And I'll keep steady after You,
I'll carry on when my strength is failing
Take heart cause You're with me
So let the stars drop,
Whatever comes I'll be ready
You keep me steady

~for KING & COUNTRY, Steady
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Straight to Heaven 2 years 5 months ago #47124

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Birdie500,
What I believe is said in Revelations 14:13 ("Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them.") is that Christians don’t have to work their way to heaven, but what we do for God will be rewarded in heaven. Jesus is our rest, and we don’t need to follow the law to be good enough for heaven. Titus 3:5 says, “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but by God’s mercy He saved us.” You follow God’s laws to please Him, not to get to heaven.

When we are Christians, we rest in Jesus. We don’t earn our way to heaven. But when we die we really experience Jesus’ rest in heaven. Heaven will be a nice place to be because you’re with Jesus, and I don’t believe we will be able to look down on earth from heaven for the reason you stated about heaven not being very nice if you looked down and watched the devastating things that are happening. Jesus said that He will wipe away every tear and relieve you of your suffering when you’re His child (Revelations 21:4).

Also here’s proof that we go straight to heaven when we die. Luke 23:43 says, “And Jesus said to him, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.’”

The belief of SDA’s that in the grave our bodies will wake up when Jesus comes to destroy the world to me sounds humorous, like the grave is a re-charge station.

In 1 Corinthians 15:53 it says, “For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.” To me that says that our bodies will be removed from the ground, and our new bodies will clothe our immortal spirit. The body is perishable and “clothes ” our spirit on earth. Then in heaven I assume we’ll be re-clothed with our perfected earthly body. The dead in Christ will rise first (from 1 Thessalonians 4:16) would mean that the bodies of those who died first will go to heaven first.

In the story of the rich man and Lazarus, it said that whenever Lazarus died he was taken to Abraham’s side. Doesn’t that mean that Jesus was talking about Lazarus’s immortal spirit going to Abraham’s side? Abraham said to the rich man, “If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rise from the dead.” How could Lazarus rise from the dead to go to the rich man’s brothers if Lazarus’s body were already taken up to heaven? He would have to re-enter the grave (enter his body) and exit the grave to be a man risen from the dead. If one believes that we don’t have an immortal spirit that separates from one’s body at death, then that would mean Abraham wasn’t in heaven, and Lazarus’s body would have been taken to Abraham’s skeleton and deposited by Abraham’s side.
Are the things you're living for worth Christ dying for? -Leonard Ravenhill
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Straight to Heaven 2 years 5 months ago #47302

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Then how would you explain the text I posted..??? :huh:
////////////////////////////////////////

You keep me steady when the sky is falling
And I'll keep steady after You,
I'll carry on when my strength is failing
Take heart cause You're with me
So let the stars drop,
Whatever comes I'll be ready
You keep me steady

~for KING & COUNTRY, Steady
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Straight to Heaven 2 years 5 months ago #47320

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I definitely agree, and my friend made a related point.
We were talking about how Lazarus died and Jesus raised him from the dead. She said, " If he died and went straight to heaven, it wouldn't seem very nice for Jesus to bring him back down again." I think that's true since, Lazarus might have had to choose God's salvation again, which I think would be weird since, once you're saved, you're saved,(when you go to heaven, you're in heaven, and you just don't come back.) Therefore, if that's true, it doesn't make sense for Jesus to have brought him back to life.
Anyway, hope this is helpful and we all get saved. :)


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Straight to Heaven 2 years 5 months ago #47330

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Prov17 wrote:
Birdie500,
What I believe is said in Revelations 14:13 ("Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them.") is that Christians don’t have to work their way to heaven, but what we do for God will be rewarded in heaven. Jesus is our rest, and we don’t need to follow the law to be good enough for heaven. Titus 3:5 says, “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but by God’s mercy He saved us.” You follow God’s laws to please Him, not to get to heaven.

When we are Christians, we rest in Jesus. We don’t earn our way to heaven. But when we die we really experience Jesus’ rest in heaven. Heaven will be a nice place to be because you’re with Jesus, and I don’t believe we will be able to look down on earth from heaven for the reason you stated about heaven not being very nice if you looked down and watched the devastating things that are happening. Jesus said that He will wipe away every tear and relieve you of your suffering when you’re His child (Revelations 21:4).

Also here’s proof that we go straight to heaven when we die. Luke 23:43 says, “And Jesus said to him, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.’”

The belief of SDA’s that in the grave our bodies will wake up when Jesus comes to destroy the world to me sounds humorous, like the grave is a re-charge station.

In 1 Corinthians 15:53 it says, “For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.” To me that says that our bodies will be removed from the ground, and our new bodies will clothe our immortal spirit. The body is perishable and “clothes ” our spirit on earth. Then in heaven I assume we’ll be re-clothed with our perfected earthly body. The dead in Christ will rise first (from 1 Thessalonians 4:16) would mean that the bodies of those who died first will go to heaven first.

In the story of the rich man and Lazarus, it said that whenever Lazarus died he was taken to Abraham’s side. Doesn’t that mean that Jesus was talking about Lazarus’s immortal spirit going to Abraham’s side? Abraham said to the rich man, “If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rise from the dead.” How could Lazarus rise from the dead to go to the rich man’s brothers if Lazarus’s body were already taken up to heaven? He would have to re-enter the grave (enter his body) and exit the grave to be a man risen from the dead. If one believes that we don’t have an immortal spirit that separates from one’s body at death, then that would mean Abraham wasn’t in heaven, and Lazarus’s body would have been taken to Abraham’s skeleton and deposited by Abraham’s side.

Prov17, the verse you used is improperly punctuated. Koine Greek has no punctuation, so it was usually up to translators to decide where to place commas and periods. The way it is written says that Jesus told the repentant thief that on that day, they would both be in Heaven.

However, this contradicts other passages. John 20:17 tells us that when Mary Magdalene saw Jesus resurrected and tried to touch Him, He told her not to because He had "not yet ascended to the Father".

Furthermore, John 19:31-34 tells us that since it was a High Sabbath (A Sabbath where a feast day happens on the same day), the Pharisees asked the Romans to break the legs of those being crucified. However, they did not break Jesus's, because He was already dead. Crucifixion usually takes up to 15 days, but Jesus was dead in a matter of hours.

How could Jesus promise someone that they would be in Heaven together that day if He didn't actually go to Heaven when he died, and if the person whom he made that promise to didn't die the same day He did?

The Bible cannot be in disagreement with itself. The only way to reconcile this discrepancy is to conclude that Luke 22:43 should say:

"Verily I say unto you today, thou wilt be with me in Paradise."

You must keep 1 Thessalonians 4:16 in context with the entire chapter. In it, Paul is writing bereaved church members and encouraging them with details about the Second Coming. That is why the following verse says that after Jesus appears in the sky and the dead in Him are resurrected, those alive who have accepted Him as their Savior will be taken up to meet Him.

In addition, the story of Lazarus the beggar is a parable, an illustration Jesus used to tell a story to a group of people. His intended audience was Pharisees, an ultra-conservative upper class Jewish group. The Pharisees did believe in immortal souls, so Jesus told the story in a way they would understand.
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Straight to Heaven 2 years 5 months ago #47335

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Birdie500 wrote:
and also somewhere in the Bible it says that the dead in Christ will rise first in the coming of Jesus Christ. How could they rise if they were already in heaven? that's my point
I totally agree with you on that. My mum has this type of discussion all the time with people. If you die how can you exactly rise first if you go to heaven,.
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Straight to Heaven 2 years 5 months ago #47363

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Prov17 wrote:
Birdie500,
What I believe is said in Revelations 14:13 ("Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them.") is that Christians don’t have to work their way to heaven, but what we do for God will be rewarded in heaven. Jesus is our rest, and we don’t need to follow the law to be good enough for heaven. Titus 3:5 says, “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but by God’s mercy He saved us.” You follow God’s laws to please Him, not to get to heaven.

When we are Christians, we rest in Jesus. We don’t earn our way to heaven. But when we die we really experience Jesus’ rest in heaven. Heaven will be a nice place to be because you’re with Jesus, and I don’t believe we will be able to look down on earth from heaven for the reason you stated about heaven not being very nice if you looked down and watched the devastating things that are happening. Jesus said that He will wipe away every tear and relieve you of your suffering when you’re His child (Revelations 21:4).

Also here’s proof that we go straight to heaven when we die. Luke 23:43 says, “And Jesus said to him, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.’”

The belief of SDA’s that in the grave our bodies will wake up when Jesus comes to destroy the world to me sounds humorous, like the grave is a re-charge station.

In 1 Corinthians 15:53 it says, “For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.” To me that says that our bodies will be removed from the ground, and our new bodies will clothe our immortal spirit. The body is perishable and “clothes ” our spirit on earth. Then in heaven I assume we’ll be re-clothed with our perfected earthly body. The dead in Christ will rise first (from 1 Thessalonians 4:16) would mean that the bodies of those who died first will go to heaven first.

In the story of the rich man and Lazarus, it said that whenever Lazarus died he was taken to Abraham’s side. Doesn’t that mean that Jesus was talking about Lazarus’s immortal spirit going to Abraham’s side? Abraham said to the rich man, “If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rise from the dead.” How could Lazarus rise from the dead to go to the rich man’s brothers if Lazarus’s body were already taken up to heaven? He would have to re-enter the grave (enter his body) and exit the grave to be a man risen from the dead. If one believes that we don’t have an immortal spirit that separates from one’s body at death, then that would mean Abraham wasn’t in heaven, and Lazarus’s body would have been taken to Abraham’s skeleton and deposited by Abraham’s side.

I'm kind of confused. Do you believe in going straight to heaven after you die or no? 'Cause some of your comments seem like your for it and others like your against it.
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Straight to Heaven 2 years 5 months ago #47387

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Hi everyone,

Remember that Bible verses must be read in context. If it doesn't line up with the rest of the Bible, then you are probably interpreting it wrong. All Bible doctrines should be based on several clear verses in the Bible.

In the case of Luke 23:43, Jesus didn't ascend to God right after He died, although He said "with Me".
Remember John 20:11-18. Here I post vs. 16-17 so you get the idea.
Jesus said to her, “Mary!”

She turned and said to Him, “Rabboni!” (which is to say, Teacher).

Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.’”

Please notice 1 Corinthians 15:51-52.
Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
It sounds to me that we will all be changed at the SAME time.

Remember that the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus was just a parable. It's just an illustration. Like I said, we shouldn't base doctrines on something that only was meant to teach a lesson. Unfortunately, sometimes, we miss the point. The parable is to teach us not to be self-righteous, and as a result refuse to share.

With that aside, let me move on to my main point. (Bear with me on this; it's long)

Let's go back to the beginning when God created Adam. Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
So that means that the Body + Breath of Life = A Living Being/Creature/Soul. Simple logic, and the soul can't "live" without the body.
Got that? A soul is a person, and when the breath is taken away, all that is left is the dead body (Ecc 12:7, Ecc 3:20, Gen 3:19, Ps 104:29)

While a person is dead, they stay in the ground.
Psalm 115:17
The dead do not praise the Lord, nor any who go down into silence.
Ecc 9:5-6
For the living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. Also, their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished; nevermore will they have a share in anything done under the sun.
Job 7:9-10
As the cloud disappears and vanishes away, so he who goes down to the grave does not come up. He shall never return to his house, nor shall his place know him anymore.

Jesus called death a sleep. (Ps 13:3, Eph 5:14, Matt 9:24)
I wanted to include John 11:11-14, so here it is.
These things He said, and after that He said to them, “Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up.” Then His disciples said, “Lord, if he sleeps he will get well.” However, Jesus spoke of his death, but they thought that He was speaking about taking rest in sleep. Then Jesus said to them plainly, “Lazarus is dead”.

Jesus will raise up His people who have passed away at the very end of earth's history. (John 6:44, Daniel 12:1-3)

1 Thess 4:13-18
But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.
All the resurrections will occur at the second coming.

Thanks for reading. I hope this helped.
Smiling for Jesus
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Straight to Heaven 2 years 5 months ago #47426

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Oh here's another text, I was initially looking for this one: 5 For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing, And they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten.
////////////////////////////////////////

You keep me steady when the sky is falling
And I'll keep steady after You,
I'll carry on when my strength is failing
Take heart cause You're with me
So let the stars drop,
Whatever comes I'll be ready
You keep me steady

~for KING & COUNTRY, Steady
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Straight to Heaven 2 years 4 months ago #48257

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Prov17 wrote:
Birdie500,
What I believe is said in Revelations 14:13 ("Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them.") is that Christians don’t have to work their way to heaven, but what we do for God will be rewarded in heaven. Jesus is our rest, and we don’t need to follow the law to be good enough for heaven. Titus 3:5 says, “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but by God’s mercy He saved us.” You follow God’s laws to please Him, not to get to heaven.

When we are Christians, we rest in Jesus. We don’t earn our way to heaven. But when we die we really experience Jesus’ rest in heaven. Heaven will be a nice place to be because you’re with Jesus, and I don’t believe we will be able to look down on earth from heaven for the reason you stated about heaven not being very nice if you looked down and watched the devastating things that are happening. Jesus said that He will wipe away every tear and relieve you of your suffering when you’re His child (Revelations 21:4).

Also here’s proof that we go straight to heaven when we die. Luke 23:43 says, “And Jesus said to him, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.’”

The belief of SDA’s that in the grave our bodies will wake up when Jesus comes to destroy the world to me sounds humorous, like the grave is a re-charge station.

In 1 Corinthians 15:53 it says, “For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.” To me that says that our bodies will be removed from the ground, and our new bodies will clothe our immortal spirit. The body is perishable and “clothes ” our spirit on earth. Then in heaven I assume we’ll be re-clothed with our perfected earthly body. The dead in Christ will rise first (from 1 Thessalonians 4:16) would mean that the bodies of those who died first will go to heaven first.

In the story of the rich man and Lazarus, it said that whenever Lazarus died he was taken to Abraham’s side. Doesn’t that mean that Jesus was talking about Lazarus’s immortal spirit going to Abraham’s side? Abraham said to the rich man, “If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rise from the dead.” How could Lazarus rise from the dead to go to the rich man’s brothers if Lazarus’s body were already taken up to heaven? He would have to re-enter the grave (enter his body) and exit the grave to be a man risen from the dead. If one believes that we don’t have an immortal spirit that separates from one’s body at death, then that would mean Abraham wasn’t in heaven, and Lazarus’s body would have been taken to Abraham’s skeleton and deposited by Abraham’s side.


Luke 23:43 is not punctuated right so people interpret it the wrong way. It depends on where the comma goes. It says, "Assuredley, I say to you today, you will be with me in paradise."
So Jesus is saying that he told the robber today that the robber will be with him in heaven not that today they will both go to heaven when they die.
2 Timothy 4:7- I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.


-15 years old

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Straight to Heaven 2 years 4 months ago #48366

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thanks guys for explaining it a bit more!

@Prov17

I'm not sure if I said people have to work their way to heaven... :dry:

The punctuation definitely wrong! And I'm not saying maybe. I don't doubt SDA belief. Back then, they had no spaces or punctuation so translators guessed. What it means is "I say to you today, You will be with Me in paradise"
To ride on a horse is to fly without wings. XD
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Straight to Heaven 2 years 2 months ago #49804

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John 19:31 Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

InspiredThinker, According to John 19:31, that verse pretty much proves that the thief died on the same day as Jesus but at a different hour. As Sabbath was coming on, bodies couldn’t be left on the crosses. Breaking the legs was supposed to hasten the thieves’ deaths. So if the repentant thief didn’t die the same day, would the thieves still have been breathing after they were taken off their crosses for the upcoming Passover?

As it turns out, in John 20:27 it says, “Then Jesus said to Thomas, ‘Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.’” Why would Jesus allow Thomas to touch Him when Mary couldn’t? I thought so that Thomas would quit doubting Jesus’ resurrection.

I looked in an NIV study Bible to see if there was a note on John 20:17 for Mary not being able to touch Jesus. It said that Jesus probably wanted Mary to stop clinging to Him because He wasn’t about to go back to God and that Mary should go tell His disciples that He (Jesus) had risen. Then in the next verse it said that Mary went to Jesus’ disciples and told them Jesus is risen.

Jesus didn’t speak to please the Pharisees. He angered the Pharisees many times with His words. Jesus had already corrected them on the Sabbath, and the Pharisees got mad. Why wouldn’t Jesus say that there is no such thing as hell and immortal souls if he really wanted to? He was already on a roll saying that they didn’t need to be as strict as they were on the Sabbath.
Are the things you're living for worth Christ dying for? -Leonard Ravenhill
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Straight to Heaven 2 years 2 months ago #49876

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Prov17 wrote:
John 19:31 Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

InspiredThinker, According to John 19:31, that verse pretty much proves that the thief died on the same day as Jesus but at a different hour. As Sabbath was coming on, bodies couldn’t be left on the crosses. Breaking the legs was supposed to hasten the thieves’ deaths. So if the repentant thief didn’t die the same day, would the thieves still have been breathing after they were taken off their crosses for the upcoming Passover?

As it turns out, in John 20:27 it says, “Then Jesus said to Thomas, ‘Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.’” Why would Jesus allow Thomas to touch Him when Mary couldn’t? I thought so that Thomas would quit doubting Jesus’ resurrection.

I looked in an NIV study Bible to see if there was a note on John 20:17 for Mary not being able to touch Jesus. It said that Jesus probably wanted Mary to stop clinging to Him because He wasn’t about to go back to God and that Mary should go tell His disciples that He (Jesus) had risen. Then in the next verse it said that Mary went to Jesus’ disciples and told them Jesus is risen.

Jesus didn’t speak to please the Pharisees. He angered the Pharisees many times with His words. Jesus had already corrected them on the Sabbath, and the Pharisees got mad. Why wouldn’t Jesus say that there is no such thing as hell and immortal souls if he really wanted to? He was already on a roll saying that they didn’t need to be as strict as they were on the Sabbath.

Jesus allowed Thomas to touch him because He went to the Father between Mary's experience and Thomas'. And in response to your point in Luke 23:43, it was to comfort the thief. Would you be comforted with "Today you will be with Me" or with "You will be with me in 2000-some years"? And if death is like a sleep, just like if you're unconscious, then it actually would feel like only a second between his death and the 2nd coming.


"And lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." - Matthew 28:20

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Straight to Heaven 2 years 2 months ago #50077

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@Prov, Jesus, when he spoke in parables, used things that the Jews in those days were familiar with. Grapevines, shepherds, cornfields, these were all things that the Jews saw everyday, and when they saw these things their minds would go back to what Jesus had taught them. There was a belief in those days that people who were rich and increased with goods were in God's favor and they would go to heaven to Abraham's bosom. However, those who were afflicted, diseased, and poor were receiving the wrath of God and would ultimately end up in hell. Jesus however, turned this common belief inside down and backwards by making the rich guy suffer in hell and placing the poor guy in Abraham's bosom. The moral of the story comes in Luke 16:31-And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
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Straight to Heaven 2 years 4 days ago #52626

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I don't believe it. If this were true, everyone would start killing themselves, thinking they're going to heaven! :|
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Straight to Heaven 1 year 10 months ago #54306

Blue Tornado wrote:
Prov17 wrote:
John 19:31 Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

InspiredThinker, According to John 19:31, that verse pretty much proves that the thief died on the same day as Jesus but at a different hour. As Sabbath was coming on, bodies couldn’t be left on the crosses. Breaking the legs was supposed to hasten the thieves’ deaths. So if the repentant thief didn’t die the same day, would the thieves still have been breathing after they were taken off their crosses for the upcoming Passover?

As it turns out, in John 20:27 it says, “Then Jesus said to Thomas, ‘Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.’” Why would Jesus allow Thomas to touch Him when Mary couldn’t? I thought so that Thomas would quit doubting Jesus’ resurrection.

I looked in an NIV study Bible to see if there was a note on John 20:17 for Mary not being able to touch Jesus. It said that Jesus probably wanted Mary to stop clinging to Him because He wasn’t about to go back to God and that Mary should go tell His disciples that He (Jesus) had risen. Then in the next verse it said that Mary went to Jesus’ disciples and told them Jesus is risen.

Jesus didn’t speak to please the Pharisees. He angered the Pharisees many times with His words. Jesus had already corrected them on the Sabbath, and the Pharisees got mad. Why wouldn’t Jesus say that there is no such thing as hell and immortal souls if he really wanted to? He was already on a roll saying that they didn’t need to be as strict as they were on the Sabbath.

Jesus allowed Thomas to touch him because He went to the Father between Mary's experience and Thomas'. And in response to your point in Luke 23:43, it was to comfort the thief. Would you be comforted with "Today you will be with Me" or with "You will be with me in 2000-some years"? And if death is like a sleep, just like if you're unconscious, then it actually would feel like only a second between his death and the 2nd coming.
I believe that you don't go straight to Heaven when you die. You said that Jesus said this as a comfort? Jesus doesn't lie. He wouldn't say "today you will be with me" if he didn't mean it. And...it would bring me comfort to know that I would someday be with Jesus in Heaven even if he didn't say that very day. Anyway...I just wanted to point that out...my intentions aren't to offend you in any way...and if I didn't understand your post @blue tornado, then could you clarify? Thanks...I don't want to misunderstand anything...
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Straight to Heaven 1 year 6 months ago #57693

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Prov17 wrote:
Birdie500,
What I believe is said in Revelations 14:13 ("Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them.") is that Christians don’t have to work their way to heaven, but what we do for God will be rewarded in heaven. Jesus is our rest, and we don’t need to follow the law to be good enough for heaven. Titus 3:5 says, “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but by God’s mercy He saved us.” You follow God’s laws to please Him, not to get to heaven.

When we are Christians, we rest in Jesus. We don’t earn our way to heaven. But when we die we really experience Jesus’ rest in heaven. Heaven will be a nice place to be because you’re with Jesus, and I don’t believe we will be able to look down on earth from heaven for the reason you stated about heaven not being very nice if you looked down and watched the devastating things that are happening. Jesus said that He will wipe away every tear and relieve you of your suffering when you’re His child (Revelations 21:4).

Also here’s proof that we go straight to heaven when we die. Luke 23:43 says, “And Jesus said to him, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.’”

The belief of SDA’s that in the grave our bodies will wake up when Jesus comes to destroy the world to me sounds humorous, like the grave is a re-charge station.

In 1 Corinthians 15:53 it says, “For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.” To me that says that our bodies will be removed from the ground, and our new bodies will clothe our immortal spirit. The body is perishable and “clothes ” our spirit on earth. Then in heaven I assume we’ll be re-clothed with our perfected earthly body. The dead in Christ will rise first (from 1 Thessalonians 4:16) would mean that the bodies of those who died first will go to heaven first.

In the story of the rich man and Lazarus, it said that whenever Lazarus died he was taken to Abraham’s side. Doesn’t that mean that Jesus was talking about Lazarus’s immortal spirit going to Abraham’s side? Abraham said to the rich man, “If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rise from the dead.” How could Lazarus rise from the dead to go to the rich man’s brothers if Lazarus’s body were already taken up to heaven? He would have to re-enter the grave (enter his body) and exit the grave to be a man risen from the dead. If one believes that we don’t have an immortal spirit that separates from one’s body at death, then that would mean Abraham wasn’t in heaven, and Lazarus’s body would have been taken to Abraham’s skeleton and deposited by Abraham’s side.

When you said your explanation for 1 Thessalonians 4:16 you contradicted yourself. If the bodies of those who died first went to heaven, they would have been in the ground, not already in heaven. Like someone said, it would be mean of Jesus to take someone to heaven and then bring them back down again. The dead in Christ who rise first, are already in the ground.
2 Timothy 4:7- I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.


-15 years old

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Straight to Heaven 1 year 6 months ago #57928

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Prov17 wrote:
Birdie500,
What I believe is said in Revelations 14:13 ("Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them.") is that Christians don’t have to work their way to heaven, but what we do for God will be rewarded in heaven. Jesus is our rest, and we don’t need to follow the law to be good enough for heaven. Titus 3:5 says, “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but by God’s mercy He saved us.” You follow God’s laws to please Him, not to get to heaven.

When we are Christians, we rest in Jesus. We don’t earn our way to heaven. But when we die we really experience Jesus’ rest in heaven. Heaven will be a nice place to be because you’re with Jesus, and I don’t believe we will be able to look down on earth from heaven for the reason you stated about heaven not being very nice if you looked down and watched the devastating things that are happening. Jesus said that He will wipe away every tear and relieve you of your suffering when you’re His child (Revelations 21:4).

Also here’s proof that we go straight to heaven when we die. Luke 23:43 says, “And Jesus said to him, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.’”

The belief of SDA’s that in the grave our bodies will wake up when Jesus comes to destroy the world to me sounds humorous, like the grave is a re-charge station.

In 1 Corinthians 15:53 it says, “For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.” To me that says that our bodies will be removed from the ground, and our new bodies will clothe our immortal spirit. The body is perishable and “clothes ” our spirit on earth. Then in heaven I assume we’ll be re-clothed with our perfected earthly body. The dead in Christ will rise first (from 1 Thessalonians 4:16) would mean that the bodies of those who died first will go to heaven first.

In the story of the rich man and Lazarus, it said that whenever Lazarus died he was taken to Abraham’s side. Doesn’t that mean that Jesus was talking about Lazarus’s immortal spirit going to Abraham’s side? Abraham said to the rich man, “If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rise from the dead.” How could Lazarus rise from the dead to go to the rich man’s brothers if Lazarus’s body were already taken up to heaven? He would have to re-enter the grave (enter his body) and exit the grave to be a man risen from the dead. If one believes that we don’t have an immortal spirit that separates from one’s body at death, then that would mean Abraham wasn’t in heaven, and Lazarus’s body would have been taken to Abraham’s skeleton and deposited by Abraham’s side.


First of all this is a parable to teach that Jews who had the scriptures were rich, but were not even letting the spiritual crumbs go to feed those who had nothing, meaning Lazarus the beggar. Jesus is not trying to teach the physical reality of death, the Bible is very clear, Eccles 9:5 "For the living know that they shall die but the dead know not anything". What is so amazing is that Jesus knew that he would be raising Lazarus from the dead in the near future. He chose to use his name, by doing so he would reaffirm this teaching because the Pharisees who had rejected" Moses and the Prophets", and would demonstrate that rejection by trying to kill Lazarus after being raised from the dead. In saying this parable, he rebuked the Pharisees , "If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets; neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead". This was a direct reference to him raising Lazarus from the dead, You must be careful not to accept one of the twin lies that Satan told Eve in the Garden of Eden, GEN 3:4 "you will not surely die", which is the lie of the immortal soul/spirit.
2 Timothy 4:7- I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.


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