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TOPIC: God's not so just?

God's not so just? 4 years 2 months ago #33234

Over the last two months I've been reading the bible for three hours a week, and frankly I've found quite a few things that are really bugging me. If you can answer any of them, please just put 1-3 before you give me an explanation so I know what issue you're addressing. These things are pretty confusing to me, and I apologize if they come across a bit 'rebellious teen questioning her parents'.

1) First of all, is God really giving us freedom to choose? Did God not put us on this earth to prove to lucifer that He was a just and good God, one who didn't give out unreasonable punishment and let people have free will? If so, than what does it mean in the bible when it says; ...and God hardened [insert biblical name here]'s heart, and caused him to... . Really? If God gives us so much free will, how does that make any sense? Also, with the Israelites, I pretty much got the gist that they had two options: Option number one? Do as God says and survive another ten years in the desert. Option number two? Disobey God, condemn your children, your children's children, your children's children's children, etc, get yourself killed, or get yourself banned from the land you were promised when you left Egypt to spend three fourths of your life in the desert. What kind of free will is that? You either do as God says or well, sorry. You're going to hell. Free will for everyone!

2) We all know the story of how Cain killed Abel in his resentful rage after his sacrifice didn't please The Lord, but what about after that? Cain speaks to God when He tells him to flee the land, claiming that he feared being killed by other people in different lands. What other people? Adam and Eve, Cain's parents, are the first people to ever walk the earth, right? So where do these other people come from?

3) Is God really so just and merciful? Some of the things I've read about have made Him seem like anything but. For instance, He'll lead the Israelites into another nation's lands, help them defeat these poor people who were in the land to begin with and therefore have the right to the land, and did I mention most of the time the Israelites took their land just because these nations refused to let them travel through their land. I mean, come on, last time I checked it's their right to refuse these strangers passage in their land, and God makes it into some huge, evil deal in which these nations that refused Israel access are destroyed, and I mean completely obliterated: men, women, children, babies, everyone slaughtered. In one case a man came before Moses to plead for the life of his foreign wife and a priest chased them off and killed them both without bothering to listen to them, and later God actually APPRAISED THIS PRIEST for doing it. Again, let's just go back to the whole killing everyone thing.. Why on earth would they kill everyone? These babies.. Why not take them in and raise them in the way of God? They didn't do anything wrong, they don't even know the meaning of wrong or right, so why end an innocent life in the name of God? People these days pounce on anyone who kills in the name of God, claiming our God is a loving God who wouldn't support this kind of savagery, but have they even looked into the bible? Where he orders the slaughter of thousands, maybe even hundreds of thousands of innocent deaths? Praises the killer? Secures a spot in heaven for that one good ol' priesty of his that has the courage to kill now ask questions?

Now, don't get me wrong, I was born and raised in the seventh day Adventist community, but as a youth I'm finding it increasingly hard to see it as a warm, loving, cookie crumbles and ginger bread houses place where everyone is loved and welcomed, and find it beginning to look more and more like a battlefield filled with people who are all part of the same, excuse my bluntness, cult, each with their own diluted translation of 'right and wrong' for a weapon... And what better place to get some answers than an entire website filled with nothing but confused people like me and people who know the bible better than (most likely) anyone I'll have the pleasure of meeting?
God loves an atheist more than a hateful Christian
Last Edit: 4 years 2 months ago by YuffieBunney.
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Re: God's not so just? 4 years 2 months ago #33520

  • Gogirl
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Let me say that it is important to be truthful concerning your thoughts, and as a SDA teen having such thoughts it just reiterates where we are as God's so called people. Rev 3:17 gives us a very clear picture of our state:
"Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:"

Why are we in this condition? Because we think we are wiser than God to the extent that we believe we should question God's judgement. You see, there are a few principles we should bear in mind when reading His word:
1. That God gave us the Old Testament for our example the consequences of sin
2. That God does nothing without giving us opportunity to see His character which is Love
3. That God lays things out to us for us to make up our own minds based on the information given

So your first question:
3. Is God really giving us free will? The answer is yes... Why? Because everything that we see in the Old Testament, including all your examples demonstrates why sin needs to be destroyed, because our sinful minds cannot see the purity of God. Where God used His Holy people to go and wipe out sin, it was to show that any sign of sin in our lives must be completely removed (big or smal) shown as major or minor (adult or child) old sins or new sins. God demonstrated the seriousness of sin by judging nations that had filled up their cup of sin. God who knows the beginning and the ending rightfully judged nations who chose to follow the path of death to be removed from the face of the earth because as it said in Gen 6:5,
And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. (Genesis 6:5 KJV). There was no light in them, so destruction was inevitable.
We need to understand our God and realize that He allows things to happen for us to learn from, having free will to choose. God said He rather that we choose Life... It's our choice, but know that if we choose our own way like the many nations in the Old Testament, then we end up like as the wise king said:
There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. (Proverbs 16:25 KJV)
We can now make our free Will choice

2.) let us first note that Cain and Abel were before the flood and that before the flood, the land was one mass, so people were not separated by water. Secondly, you nor I can determine how many years had passed since the situation between Cain and Abel occurred. We realize that Adam was 135 years old when He had another son of great significance (Seth). Adam and Eve were fully grown and mature when they were created. God told Adam and Eve the should go and multiply and populate the earth. I can only conclude that Adam and Eve had many children over the hundreds of years they lived. Children would move away and as part of God's ordained plan, allowed what we call (incest) to be a natural form of procreation until generation upon generation passed. A similar situation occurred after the flood when Noah and his children had to populate the earth. Faith is the key and trusting that God is true and there is no lie in His word. Cain was talking about people who were his brothers and sisters. Today, we are brothers and sisters, yet we are so far removed regarding our blood line, we do not have an issue.

1. I answered part of this question in (point 3.) but I will repeat without apology that God lays out the the two sides, He hides nothing because He loves us, but God through His amazing Love gives us the power to choose... But we know the consequences; life or death. All because of Adam and Eve's choice did death enter into this world.

God help us to come out of our lukewarm state, that we see His light and not greyness or darkness, for as God said in His word ... Choose light rather than darkness.

God bless you in your search for Him
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Re: God's not so just? 4 years 2 months ago #33551

  • tim33
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I've been reading the book 'The Bible Jesus Read' by Phillip Yancey. In part of the book Phillip Yancey writes about Job and how unfairly he was treated by God- and to conclude what he had learnt from Job he said this: "The book of job forces me to believe that God cares more about our faith than our pleasure."

It's a thought that challenges me, I suppose you could say God cares more about our growth as a Christian than He cares about our comfort.

I don't know about you, but I'm a Christian that wants to change the world around me, I want God to allow me to go through hard times and push me harder than I thought I could go because otherwise, I'll never grow.

At some stage we have to let go and let God. There are things that I can't explain in the Bible, If I could explain everything, then God is just as simple as me. I choose to trust that God knows what he is doing, and my relationship with Him proves to me He is trustworthy.

God sees the bigger picture. I would ask God the questions you have. As I have struggled with some of these issues I've talked to God about it, sometimes I've yelled at God and always in one way or another He talks back.

Ask God, He is the only one qualified to answer your questions.
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Re: God's not so just? 4 years 2 months ago #33571

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ok, first of all, I think that these are fair questions that deserve good answers, so i'll give what I know and if there is someone smarter than me then please correct me if i'm wrong.

1)we have to choices: to do wrong, and to do right. God's way or Satan's way. we have free will to obey God and be rewarded later or follow satan and his evil ways and, well, burn to death (to put it bluntly). God said that the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord (Romans 6:23). we do have a choice! its like this: Your mom just made cookies and set them out to cool off. she says that you can't eat them yet or else you won't have some for dessert. You have a choice to be obedient and leave the cookies alone or you can eat one secretly and get in trouble (no more cookies!). you have the free will to choose whether or not you want to eat the cookies, but consequences will follow both (positive or negative). make sense?

2)I'm not entirely sure what cain was thinking with the people since there were only three of them on the earth at that time...
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Re: God's not so just? 4 years 1 month ago #33667

  • SdaLegacy
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1. If you look closer at the issue God gave spefic instructions and multiple chances that they did not listen to.
2. He was reffering to his family beccause Adam and Eve had daughters. Cain also had a wife. He figured Adam and Eve would have more children who would hunt him down.
3. Land belongs to God and God told us to take care of it and live there. NO one except God has a right to the land. Also those people were wicked in God's sight and God could not have the Israelites influeneced by these evil nations. You know what happened when they did allow themselves to be influenced by them against God's will. Also Abraham, Issac, and Jacob had previosly "owned" much of that land before the Israelites entered egypt.
for more info read Prophets and Kings and Patriachs and Prophets. Good books helped me clear things out.
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Re: God's not so just? 4 years 1 month ago #33732

  • InspiredThinker
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We do have free choice. Hell, for example, is not a punishment. Romans 6:23 tells us that the wages of sin is death. According to that verse, hell is our just reward. God didn't put us on this Earth to prove that he was just and merciful. In addition, men hardened their own hearts. Although God did harden the Pharaoh's heart, the Pharaoh could have opened his eyes and seen the destruction his stubbornness was causing. The sun that hardens clay is the same sun that melts wax. God might do something to us, but WE choose how we respond.

2: As God told Adam and Eve to multiply their numbers, we can assume that they had multiple other children between Abel and Seth. Including daughters.

3: Isaiah 55:8
For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are my ways your ways, saith the LORD. As high as the heavens are above the Earth, are my ways above your ways, and my thoughts above your thoughts.

I can't answer that question, but I know that God's ways are best, so I won't bother trying.
Speak up, judge righteously, and defend the cause of the needy and oppressed.
-Proverbs 31:6

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