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Non-SDA ???? 2 years 9 months ago #43798

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Smilygon10, thanks for showing me that. I disagree with twenty six and twenty seven but I can't find fault with the others.
Also you said "Notice it says "They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever."
See my note above at SDA belief 27. ~27 We do not believe the wicked will burn forever. Although the Bible does mention instances where they will burn "forever and ever" or something similar, they refer to eternal results. The Bible mentions over 50 times something that "lasts forever" but has already ended. Thus, they will be destroyed (something that makes God very, very, sad) and the universe will be free from sin. Could you tell me how something that lasts forever ends?
Are the things you're living for worth Christ dying for? -Leonard Ravenhill
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Non-SDA ???? 2 years 9 months ago #43800

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Prov17 wrote:
Quirky wrote:
@Prov, I don't completely understand the question.

@Fellow SDA's, DON'T BE SENSITIVE!!!!! Just because someone is of a different denomination or doesn't have the same beliefs doesn't mean we should kick 'em off of Guide. "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord."
I was just wondering if you had a Saturday/Sunday weekend like we do. I really shouldn't have interrupted your beliefs. I'm sorry.

You've done nothing wrong by expressing your beliefs. We've wronged you by picking your beliefs apart to pieces, rather than letting you choose for yourself. The power to choose is one of the most powerful things God has given us, and you've chosen to be very mature on this sight.

Personally, I believe people like you, who aren't affiliated with the SDA Church, are excellent for this site, because you help us step back and see how we relate to others.

Guide SDA's, let's not pick on Prov17 for sharing his views. He has been open, honest, transparent, brave, and mature. We must not make the mistake of alienating people who believe differently from us, or else we become no better than the Jews in the Apostolic Age who wanted nothing to do with converted Gentiles.
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Non-SDA ???? 2 years 9 months ago #43801

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Hi guys!

I tried to hold myself back from commenting for a while, but I can't help it now! Lol
Hi Prov17! My name is Hannah and I would like to personally welcome you to Guide...whoa I sound like an ambassador or something...

Anyway, I just wanted to tell you that there is a verse that should fill your request! (It's not written in so many words of course...) But here it is: Leviticus 23:32 "From evening to evening you shall keep your sabbath"

And also in addition to the Ten Commandments, we have Genesis 1:13, "And there was evening, and there was morning, the third day" So since a real day actually begins at sundown, that means Sabbath starts on Friday at sundown and ends on Saturday at sundown :cheer:
////////////////////////////////////////

You keep me steady when the sky is falling
And I'll keep steady after You,
I'll carry on when my strength is failing
Take heart cause You're with me
So let the stars drop,
Whatever comes I'll be ready
You keep me steady

~for KING & COUNTRY, Steady
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Non-SDA ???? 2 years 9 months ago #43802

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Prov17 wrote:
InspiredThinker wrote:
Prov17 wrote:
SdaLegacy wrote:
@Go-girl What caused you to leave the SDA Church
@Zog-Has-Fallen What doctrinal differences do you have with SDA
@Prov117 DO any of your beliefs coincide with those of the SDA church
No. I looked up your beliefs and they are contrary to our beliefs and slightly unbiblical.

Where, or what, do you see in our beliefs as unbiblical. I'd be more than happy to have a discussion with you.
Wholistic human nature (fundamental beliefs 7, 26)—Humans are an indivisible unity of body, mind, and spirit. They do not possess an immortal soul and there is no consciousness after death (commonly referred to as "soul sleep"). -Ellen White
John 10:28
And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. -Jesus
What's the point of this verse if there's no afterlife (John 3:16)?

We also don't believe in the second coming being followed by a millennial reign of the saints in heaven.

Conditional immortality (fundamental belief 27)—The wicked will not suffer eternal torment in hell, but instead will be permanently destroyed. -Ellen White
Psalm 9:17
The wicked shall be turned into hell, And all the nations that forget God.

Smart of you to mention Mrs. White, because you've mentioned you don't like how often we cite her. I'll get to that later.

1) After our parents Adam and Eve sinned, they were told "From dust you are and to dust you shall return (Genesis 3:19)"

God sculpted Adam from the dust of the ground, and created Eve from his rib.

David, the prophet, shepherd, King, and earthly ancestor of Jesus, said these verses:

His thoughts perish, and his breath goeth forth (Psalms 146:4).

The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence (Psalms 115:17).

Solomon, the wisest to ever live, wrote these verses about death:

For the living know that they shall die, but the dead know nothing (Ecclesiastes 9:5).

Then the dust shall return to the earth as it was; and the spirit shall return to God who sent it. (Ecclesiastes 12:7)

While at first glance, this verse seems to undermine the soul sleep doctrine, it aids it. The word used for spirit in the Greek translation of the Old Testament, pneuma translates to breath, which, when substituted in place of "spirit" is in line with Psalms 146:4.

The verse you mentioned is about eternal life in Heaven upon the return of Jesus. John 3:16 isn't about life after death, either. It's about being born again to live physically with Jesus.

2) The Millennium. Beliefs about this time period include Pre-millenialism, which says the millennium takes place after the Second Coming and before the Great White Throne Judgement and Post-millenialism, which says the millennium takes place before the Second Coming.

The Bible teaches that Satan will be bound to the earth for 1,000 years after the Second Coming, and during this time, the redeemed will reign with Jesus (Revelation 20:4).

3) Many times when the Bible mentions something everlasting, it means everlasting consequences, not the everlasting event itself. For example, the Bible mentions that Sodom and Gomorrah burned with everlasting fire. However, one cannot go to the Middle East and see the cities still burning. When the Bible mentions the wicked burning with an "everlasting flame", it means that God's destruction of the wicked will show his justice and remind the universe the consequences of sin. The Bible says that the wages of sin is death (Romans 3:23), and that the soul that sins shall die (Ezekiel 18:20). Heaven would not be enjoyable if the redeemed knew that their acquaintances were constantly suffering beneath them, and God despises the destruction of the wicked to the point where His prophets call it his "strange act (Isaiah 28:21).

If there is anything I didn't cover, feel free to ask me. Thank you for challenging us to back up our beliefs with scripture.
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Non-SDA ???? 2 years 9 months ago #43876

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Prov17 wrote:
Quirky wrote:
@Prov, I don't completely understand the question.

@Fellow SDA's, DON'T BE SENSITIVE!!!!! Just because someone is of a different denomination or doesn't have the same beliefs doesn't mean we should kick 'em off of Guide. "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord."
I was just wondering if you had a Saturday/Sunday weekend like we do. I really shouldn't have interrupted your beliefs. I'm sorry.

ooh, okay I get it. Yes we do the same kind of weekend as you guys (I think that's kind of a universal thing :blink:). God says the evening and morning = a day (Genesis 1: 5, 8, 13, 19, 23, 31). This is where we get the "Friday sunset to Saturday sunset" from. We keep Saturday holy because that is the seventh day of the week. Yes the believers of Christ met together in the first day of the week, but no where in the bible does it say that God changed the Sabbath to any other day. Not the first day, not the fifth day, not the sixth day. I understand that your denomination... or non denomination doesn't believe in a Saturday or Sunday or Friday or anything, which is okay. That doesn't change the fact that the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord our God.

And I would like to suggest a reference book to you. It helps A LOT when studying the bible. The book is called Strong's Concordance and its basically a HUGE book that has ever single word in the bible (besides the, and, or, etc.) and it basically gives you the meaning of each of these words. I think it'd be something really cool to look in to. There's also a website called blueletterbible.org and its basically the same thing. You can check out what the bible really means by 'work' and 'Sabbath' and a bunch of other things. Check it out! (this is for everyone else on Guide too ^_~)


P.s. thanks by the way for compelling us to study God's Word more. Your questions are leasing me straight to the bible. ^_^
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Non-SDA ???? 2 years 9 months ago #43916

No. I looked up your beliefs and they are contrary to our beliefs and slightly unbiblical.[/quote]

Just what is unbiblical about them? I'm not trying to start an argument or anything just wondering.
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Non-SDA ???? 2 years 9 months ago #43962

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@ Prov17, thanks for your response. You asked me:
how something that lasts forever ends?

First, I agree with what InspiredThinker said:
Many times when the Bible mentions something everlasting, it means everlasting consequences, not the everlasting event itself. For example, the Bible mentions that Sodom and Gomorrah burned with everlasting fire. However, one cannot go to the Middle East and see the cities still burning. When the Bible mentions the wicked burning with an "everlasting flame", it means that God's destruction of the wicked will show his justice and remind the universe the consequences of sin. The Bible says that the wages of sin is death (Romans 3:23), and that the soul that sins shall die (Ezekiel 18:20). Heaven would not be enjoyable if the redeemed knew that their acquaintances were constantly suffering beneath them, and God despises the destruction of the wicked to the point where His prophets call it his "strange act (Isaiah 28:21).

Although Bible verses are the one thing the consult, illustrations help, too. Let me give you an example. Let's say, Person A tells Person B, "I'll love you forever". Can Person A still love Person B if Person A suddenly no longer existed? No. In this case the forever can mean both "everlasting consequences" and "until they die". Is that satisfactory?

Also, please notice that only God (and the other un-fallen beings, though they don't have much to do with earth in this picture) is immortal. See 1 Tim 6:16:
the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone has immortality,
But Jesus came so we could be saved, and later with God be living forever. (2 Tim 1:9-10)
[God] who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel
Only the saved from earth can live forever. But if the wicked burn forever and ever, that means they are immortal! That can't be.

I said before, and I'll say it again. I'm not trying to condemn anyone. I'm just pointing out what God has revealed to me. Fair enough?

OK, going on, you (@Prov17) also said:
We go to church on Sunday because the early church did. I am not much educated on the end times, sorry. We call ourselfs Christians who rely on only the Bible.
And
Bible verse for "7th day which is from Friday sundown to Saturday sundown

I agree with what Quirky said:
God says the evening and morning = a day (Genesis 1: 5, 8, 13, 19, 23, 31).
After each creation day, God maintained that the day = morning and evening.
This may be a bit unclear. But remember that (according to history) the Jews knew each day to be from sunset to sunset. It was the Romans who changed it to midnight to midnight, which we keep today for our regular calendar.

Exodus 20:8-11 says:
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
We don't just not do work on Sabbath, we keep it HOLY. That is why we refrain from doing most secular activities. Also, please remember that Sabbath is not supposed to be a jail. Jesus said in Mark 2: 27,
The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.
The Sabbath is a time for us to spend with God and rest from our tough labor.

Also, you said the early church kept Sunday. I'm not sure what you mean by early church, but the apostles sure kept the Seventh-Day Sabbath. Jesus did not abolish the Sabbath, and the apostles kept it too. Christ came to fulfill the law, because the law COULDN'T be destroyed. Jesus came to take our place in being perfect and be the sacrifice. Matt 5:17-18:
Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

In Isaiah 66, It's talking about the New Earth. It's too long to quote the entire thing, you can read it yourself. But in vs. 23, it says:
And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.
(Note that the New Moon was also another festival.)
If the Sabbath was kept in the beginning and end (world made new), why would it be abolished in the middle?

Astronomy and history both confirm that Saturday is the Seventh Day. I am not sure how it works in countries with Monday as Day 1, but we know that ever since the beginning, God created the week, and made the Seventh Day, which we know as Saturday, the Sabbath. The week is not based on any astronomical cycle, unlike the day, month, or year.

It was only when Rome became a church-state union that they ordained Sunday as the "new" Sabbath. (Please understand I'm not pointing fingers at Rome, it was Satan who lead confusion and false ideas into the church. In Acts 20:28-31, the church is warned:
Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.
We knew this would happen.)

Also, you might hear about the "little horn" of Daniel 7, but that's complicated and we won't get into that now. (If someone else wants to bring that up, it's fine.)

Wow, this is getting long. I hope this answers your questions. Thanks for reading.
Smiling for Jesus
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Non-SDA ???? 2 years 9 months ago #43971

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What day do you think is the seventh day? No where in the bible are any of the weekdays mentioned (Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, etc.). it really doesn't matter what the week days are called, whether it be Saturday, or Shampoo, or Face, it doesn't matter. what matters is the DAY not the NAME. We keep the Friday sunset to Saturday sunset holy because, according to the bible, that is the seventh day of the week. It just so happens that seventh day of the week was given a name. At that that name was Saturday. Does this make sense?



P.s. in regards to apologizing about offending us and stuff, you don't have to be worried about us. "Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them." Psalms 119:165 KJV
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Non-SDA ???? 2 years 9 months ago #44087

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@Prov17 and all others non-SDA's, thanks for being honest. I appreciate how you have openly shared your views and beliefs. :)

I hope what none of us has said has offended you. We only intended to show what God has shown to us. I hope that what I have posted myself will encourage others to study the Bible more and not to begin arguments.

BTW, all my texts in this topic are qtd. from the New King James Version. You can look them up and/or check the context by typing the verse reference into the search bar @ Bible Gateway.

Thanks all!
Smiling for Jesus
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Non-SDA ???? 2 years 9 months ago #44150

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Hi Jason what state do u live in? It's OK if you're not allowed to say I love in the awesome Peach State!!! :cheer:
////////////////////////////////////////

You keep me steady when the sky is falling
And I'll keep steady after You,
I'll carry on when my strength is failing
Take heart cause You're with me
So let the stars drop,
Whatever comes I'll be ready
You keep me steady

~for KING & COUNTRY, Steady
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Non-SDA ???? 2 years 8 months ago #44316

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mknz12 wrote:
Hi Jason what state do u live in? It's OK if you're not allowed to say I love in the awesome Peach State!!! :cheer:
Hi Hannah, I live in Wisconsin. You can't give the city that you live in the rule said. If you click on Wisconsin in my profile the city that I live in is on the Wisconsin map. Just look toward the lower part of lake Michigan.
Are the things you're living for worth Christ dying for? -Leonard Ravenhill
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Non-SDA ???? 2 years 8 months ago #44319

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Zog Has-fallen wrote:
I'm a Millerite Adventist, not a Seventh-day Adventist.


What exactly do you believe? Do you believe Saturday is the Sabbath? I was just wondering. :silly:
2 Timothy 4:7- I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.


-15 years old

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Non-SDA ???? 2 years 8 months ago #44320

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Gogirl wrote:
Hi Music2000,

First of all, I am not part of a religion. What does religion really mean? A religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence. I believe in the word of God. I go by scriptural evidence to find truth. 2 or 3 passages from scripture must confirm each aspect of our belief. One of the major differences between our beliefs and that of the SDA's is what day the sabbath is, I do not believe that the sabbath is Saturday (I also do not believe in a Friday or Sunday sabbath). Friday, Saturday, or Sunday are nowhere to be seen in the word of God. Those days came about long after bible times and are manmade.

Gogirl


So what day do you go to church on if you don't believe in Sunday or Saturday?
2 Timothy 4:7- I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.


-15 years old

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Non-SDA ???? 2 years 8 months ago #44387

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InspiredThinker, Thank you for the kind words.
I never said the whole body is going to heaven; I meant the spirit. You believe that when Jesus comes again, then the righteous will go to heaven; right? Do you know a verse that would help me understand why you think that?

I asked my dad about the Millennium, and he said that we're in it. But it's not exactly 1,000 years time. It means a long period of time.

Also our church family believes that Jesus came back in 70 AD to end the old covenant with Israel. The temple was destroyed by the Romans, and sacrificing was discontinued forever. Someone who believes this is called a preterist.

Matthew 24:1-3 “Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said to them, ‘Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.’
Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, ‘Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?’”

In verse 34 He says, “Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.”
A generation is forty years long. Forty years later Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed in 70 AD.

I don’t see a place in the Bible that says hell is not around now. Check out these verses that speak of hell.

Rev. 20:10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Rev. 20:15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
Matt. 5:29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
Matt. 13:42 The Son of Man will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Are the things you're living for worth Christ dying for? -Leonard Ravenhill
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Non-SDA ???? 2 years 8 months ago #44425

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Wow, this is getting quite deep. I'll try my best to answer your questions.

In 2 Corinthians 5:1, Paul says,
For we know that if our earthly house, this tent [our earthly bodies], is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
We won't be just spirits floating around. There are more verses to prove this, I'm not going to go through all of them. Other Guide users may point them out.

The Millennium hasn't started yet. It's talking about after the 2nd coming. Note that part of Rev. 20:3 says,
...so that he should deceive the nations no more
Wait, what happened to the nations? People are still being tempted today. The nations will only be gone after Jesus 2nd coming.

Revelation 20 specifically says, 1000 years several times. We believe this to be literal.

The old system of sacrificing ended when Jesus died. Luke 23:45 says,
Then the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was torn in two.
The veil is the thick, heavy covering separating the outer court and the inside of the temple. This signified that
  1. People no longer needed to confess to the priest, they could come to the temple themself
  2. The old sacrificial system was no longer needed.
The temple was destroyed later, but people could come to Jesus as the mediator. The temple was probably destroyed so the Jews wouldn't keep sacrificing anymore.

In Matthew 24, Jesus is giving signs about both the Destruction of Jerusalem AND the Second Coming. We think Jesus combined the two because otherwise the disciples wouldn't be able to bear it. So the signs are mixed. Many things haven't happened yet (Or haven't gone on a full scale yet) and those are the signs of Jesus 2nd Coming.

Well, the Bible doesn't say hell is going on right now. The verses you pointed out in Matthew are spoken by Jesus as parables taking about the future - it's in future tense. Those in Revelation are prophecies/revelations and haven't happened yet.
Smiling for Jesus
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Non-SDA ???? 2 years 8 months ago #44443

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Prov17 wrote:
InspiredThinker, Thank you for the kind words.
I never said the whole body is going to heaven; I meant the spirit. You believe that when Jesus comes again, then the righteous will go to heaven; right? Do you know a verse that would help me understand why you think that?

I asked my dad about the Millennium, and he said that we're in it. But it's not exactly 1,000 years time. It means a long period of time.

Also our church family believes that Jesus came back in 70 AD to end the old covenant with Israel. The temple was destroyed by the Romans, and sacrificing was discontinued forever. Someone who believes this is called a preterist.

Matthew 24:1-3 “Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said to them, ‘Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.’
Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, ‘Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?’”

In verse 34 He says, “Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.”
A generation is forty years long. Forty years later Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed in 70 AD.

I don’t see a place in the Bible that says hell is not around now. Check out these verses that speak of hell.

Rev. 20:10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Rev. 20:15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
Matt. 5:29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
Matt. 13:42 The Son of Man will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

1) I do believe the righteous will enter heaven when Jesus returns, but bodily. Paul says that Jesus will give us a body like His, that at his return we will be changed in a twinkling of an eye, and that we will put on immortality and proclaim, "O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? (Philippians 3:21, 1 Corinthians 14:51-54). Paul also writes that at Jesus' return, the dead in Christ will rise first, then those believers that are alive will rise to meet Him and be with Him forever (1 Thessalonians 4:16-18)

2) There is absolutely no way we are in the Millennium. According to the Bible, the Millennium is a one-thousand year period of peace after the return of Jesus during which the redeemed rule with Him. There is no peace in this world. Since the 1600s, there has not been a 15-year period without a war. Similarly, in 239 years of existence, the USA has been at war for 222 of those years. To say that we are in the Millennium right now is delusional (no disrespect to your father, just what he's been taught). We as Seventh-day Adventists believe in a literal millennium because we interpret end time prophecies at face value.

3) Sacrifices didn't end when the Temple was destroyed. They ended when Jesus died on the cross. The ceremonial law, the one that created feast days and set the laws for sacrifices was nailed to the cross. Second, the belief that Jesus returned in AD 70 is completely unbiblical. If it were true, then the return of Jesus we now wait for would properly be called the Third Coming, not the Second. Jesus did promise that people in his generation would see the Temple destroyed, and they did. That's indisputable and irrefutable. However, what officially ended, but before AD 70 (Around AD 34, when the Gospel went to the Gentiles) was God's covenant with the Jewish Nation, the people that had killed His Son and persecuted His prophets.

4) All but one of those verses referring to hell point to a future time. Jesus is not currently looking through the Book of Life to cast people into the lake of fire. It is not yet the time for Him to pronounce His guilty verdict upon them. The one that didn't mention the future was an example. The Jews in his day believed that the soul went to heaven or hell at death, so he spoke in a way that was relevant to them.
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Non-SDA ???? 2 years 7 months ago #45252

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Hi Gogirl, I’m not allowed to go on Google+ because it’s too much like Facebook, and my dad doesn’t want me on Facebook.

InspiredThinker,
1) What you wrote regarding going to heaven bodily in your first paragraph is what I believe too, but I still believe that we have an immortal spirit. When God made man He said “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness.” We were “made in God’s image” to me means that we are like God in some ways. God is immortal, so we would be too. To back that up Ecclesiastes 12:7 says, “Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it.”

2) Can you tell me where do I find in the Bible a period of peace after Jesus returns? In Revelations 20:1-3 it’s talking of the binding of Satan. Satan isn’t physically bound; he’s spiritually bound. If Satan is physically bound, that doesn’t mean he’s powerless. He still has unbound demons as his messengers, running around.

Around the world Christians are preaching, telling people of God, converting souls for Him and practicing the Great Commission. This coincides with Revelation 20:6b which says about the millennium, “But they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.” The priests of God and of Christ are Christians spreading the Word.

I remember that SDA’s believe that the beast in Revelation is the U.S. In the Bible Paul and John said that the time is at hand. Why would that mean something that would come thousands of years later (especially with SDA's being literalists)?

3) I agree with most of what you wrote for 3) that sacrifices were no longer needed (but did continue anyway) when Jesus died. I wouldn’t have any problem calling the future return of Christ the 3rd coming (like Blue Tornado did in the thread WHY DID GOD ORDER THE DEATH OF SO MANY INNOCENT PEOPLE?) Jesus returned in judgement in a big way. He said, in Matthew 24:30, "Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”

Then just four verses later Jesus said, “Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.”

I said in my last post how long a generation is (40 years) and what happened after that generation (the temple got destroyed in 70AD).
In every verse that says, “I’m coming quickly” (like Rev. 22:12 and 22:20), it does not talk of Jesus setting up a kingdom on earth.
“I am coming quickly” is repeated throughout Revelation. See also Rev. 3:11 and Rev. 22:7.

4) When Jesus was on the cross, He said to the thief on the left, “Today you will be with me in paradise.” Jesus didn’t say to the thief that he would have to wait till judgement day when He returns at the end of time. Jesus is looking through the Book of Life and pronouncing judgement every time someone dies.
Are the things you're living for worth Christ dying for? -Leonard Ravenhill
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Non-SDA ???? 2 years 7 months ago #45447

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Prov17 wrote:
Hi Gogirl, I’m not allowed to go on Google+ because it’s too much like Facebook, and my dad doesn’t want me on Facebook.

InspiredThinker,
1) What you wrote regarding going to heaven bodily in your first paragraph is what I believe too, but I still believe that we have an immortal spirit. When God made man He said “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness.” We were “made in God’s image” to me means that we are like God in some ways. God is immortal, so we would be too. To back that up Ecclesiastes 12:7 says, “Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it.”

2) Can you tell me where do I find in the Bible a period of peace after Jesus returns? In Revelations 20:1-3 it’s talking of the binding of Satan. Satan isn’t physically bound; he’s spiritually bound. If Satan is physically bound, that doesn’t mean he’s powerless. He still has unbound demons as his messengers, running around.

Around the world Christians are preaching, telling people of God, converting souls for Him and practicing the Great Commission. This coincides with Revelation 20:6b which says about the millennium, “But they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.” The priests of God and of Christ are Christians spreading the Word.

I remember that SDA’s believe that the beast in Revelation is the U.S. In the Bible Paul and John said that the time is at hand. Why would that mean something that would come thousands of years later (especially with SDA's being literalists)?

3) I agree with most of what you wrote for 3) that sacrifices were no longer needed (but did continue anyway) when Jesus died. I wouldn’t have any problem calling the future return of Christ the 3rd coming (like Blue Tornado did in the thread WHY DID GOD ORDER THE DEATH OF SO MANY INNOCENT PEOPLE?) Jesus returned in judgement in a big way. He said, in Matthew 24:30, "Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”

Then just four verses later Jesus said, “Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.”

I said in my last post how long a generation is (40 years) and what happened after that generation (the temple got destroyed in 70AD).
In every verse that says, “I’m coming quickly” (like Rev. 22:12 and 22:20), it does not talk of Jesus setting up a kingdom on earth.
“I am coming quickly” is repeated throughout Revelation. See also Rev. 3:11 and Rev. 22:7.

4) When Jesus was on the cross, He said to the thief on the left, “Today you will be with me in paradise.” Jesus didn’t say to the thief that he would have to wait till judgement day when He returns at the end of time. Jesus is looking through the Book of Life and pronouncing judgement every time someone dies.

1) The Bible does say we were made in God's image, but the word image is defined as a physical likeness. Basically, if God had a physical body, we would resemble it.

2a) The question was not if a period of peace after Jesus's advent could be found in the Bible. I had asked you if the world resembled a time of peace.

2b) Seventh-day Adventist believe that when Satan is bound to the bottomless pit, it is after the literal, visible, and physical return of Jesus Christ. We believe the Earth is the bottomless pit of Revelation 20, as the Greek word the Bible uses in that verse (deep) is the same used for void in Genesis 1:2 in the Septaugint, the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible. After the return of Jesus, Satan will not be allowed to leave Earth and will have no one to tempt, as those not taken to Heaven will be killed by the glory of God, and their remains will be scattered from one end of the earth to the other (Jeremiah 25:33)

3) God's terms are different from ours. Had the apostles done their jobs, rather than arguing over whether or not it was right to proselytize Gentiles or force Jewish laws on them, the Second Coming would have occurred.

4) That verse is improperly punctuated. Greek had no commas, so translators had to place then where they thought they fit best. Jesus and the Repentant Thief did not die on the same day. When the Pharisees had asked the Romans to break the legs of those being crucified to hasten their deaths, they didn't break Jesus's. Furthermore, when Jesus resurrected and Mary attempted to touch her, he said, "Touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to the Father (John 20:17)." If the verse were truly spoken as you wrote it, Jesus never would have told Mary that. Since Jesus never lied, that verse must be read like this:
"I say to you today, you shall be with me in Paradise."

Rather than this:

"I say to you, today you shall be with me in Paradise."
Speak up, judge righteously, and defend the cause of the needy and oppressed.
-Proverbs 31:6

#LetUsBeDissatisfied
#BlackLivesMatter
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