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TOPIC: Homosexuality

Homosexuality 3 years 6 months ago #38510

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i think that if you are born that way, you can ask God to help you stop.

i wonder why some people do that. THATS DiSgUsTiNg!!!! :sick:
GO WILD WILD WILD KRATSS!!! CHEETAH SPEED aND LIZARD GLIDE! FALCON FLIGHT AND LION PRIDE!!!!!!!!!!
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Homosexuality 3 years 5 months ago #39110

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What about the fact that gays are dismembered from the adventist church? As far as I know, sdas are the only denomination that do that. If we're such a loving family, why don't we treat everyone equally? We say we don't judge people, but we make everything 'up to us' to judge, such as the person's sexual orientation, what the person wears and whether they're vegetarian or not. God loves us just as much. Just my opinion.
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Re: Homosexuality 3 years 4 months ago #39550

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SdaLegacy wrote:
Uhh yes the bible does say gay people will not enter heaven. 91 CORINTHIANS 6:9)

The verse you posted doesn't just mention gays. It also mentioned people that bow to idols, adulterers, and prostitutes.

However, when you say "God makes it clear gays will burn", you don't account for that fact that repentance is possible, and you sound like you're speaking for God. God, however, tells us not to do so.

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are my ways your ways. For as high as the Heavens at above the Earth, so are my thoughts higher than your thoughts, and my ways than your ways.
Isaiah 55:8-9 (KJV)

Let us also remember that an ancestor of Jesus was a prostitute. You know her by the name Rahab. After opening her home to Joshua's two spies, and hiding them in the flax on her roof, she and her family were assured safety in Jericho's pending destruction.
Rahab later married one of the men, Salmon, and together, they had a son named Boaz. Boaz married a foreigner named Ruth, and they had Obed. Obed married, and his wife had Jesse. Jesse had 10 children, and the youngest, David, became one of the greatest kings in Jewish history.

You never know who God can use to further the kingdom. Had Rahab not opened her home to the spies, she would have died, and David never would have been born (unless God took another route, which probably would have happened).

There are bad stories a of conception in many generations of Jesus's ancestral genealogy.

I would also like to point out that your verse says men who have sex with men.

Up to now we have been discussing two different things. I mentioned attraction, which does not appear as a sin in the Bible, unless one lusts after another.

For homosexuality to be defined as "sexual immorality", something needs to occur first: intercourse (moderators feel free to change my wording if and as you see fit).

Basically, I am telling you to be careful. You are coming close to making the same mistakes the Westboro Baptist Church has made, and is continuing to make in speaking for God in terms of homosexuality. You are leading yourself on a path of error, and your speech is coming closer and closer to hatred. We are coming closer and closer to the day God will tell the angels to pour out his wrath upon the Earth (Revelation 16:1), and to be protected, we need to be as firmly grounded on scripture as possible. It is sin we must hate, and not the person who has sinned. Just because we are changed does not make us perfect people.
Peter's fall was not instantaneous, but gradual. Self-confidence led him to the belief that he was saved, and step after step was taken in the downward path, until he could deny his Master. Christ's Object Lessons page 155.

Peter was so sure that he was right, that his over-confidence caused him to step back and deny Jesus. We don't want to make that same mistake, and if we don't learn from history, it will repeat itself.
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Re: Homosexuality 3 years 2 months ago #40838

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I never claimed to spea for God. I did not mention the others such as protituitin because it is Off Topic. Don't be so quick to judge me. You are nott God you can not determine where my thoughts are coming from.
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Homosexuality 3 years 2 months ago #40919

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hey guys, sorry to interrupt your debating, but I have a question. the 1 Corinthians verse that SdaLagacy cited also mentions the effeminate-guys that act feminine. would that be considered 'gay'? and also, (for SDALegacy) you said that gays won't enter into the kingdom of heaven. do you mean that there is no hope for them that they can't turn around and get right with God? I was just wondering :whistle: .....
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Homosexuality 3 years 2 months ago #40966

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Quirky, no-where does the Bible say that 'gays' will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven. The Bible talks about homosexual behaviour as being wrong, but not people being tempted by their sexual preferences- Homosexual behaviour is no more wrong than sex outside of marriage, murder or lying.

I dislike the term 'gays' because it seems to me as if I looking down on them, judging them. I am a sinner in need of salvation- I have just a much need as they have of Christ.
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Homosexuality 3 years 1 month ago #40982

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Besids, we've become too distracted on whether or not Gays are "born that way". That isn't important because according to 2 Corinthians 5:17:
Therefore, if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature; the old has gone and the new has come.

We've gotten so hung up on the "born that way" that we've ignored one of Paul's most powerful statements to a community that was being destroyed by scandal after scandal. If people could be new in Christ back then, can't they today?
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Homosexuality 3 years 1 month ago #41066

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I am really sure that anyone can change as that is what the bible says.
Too many years trying not to rock the boat
I gotta quote, "I don't wanna rock the boat, I wanna sink it"
Ima just do it

KB. Ima Just Do It
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Homosexuality 3 years 1 month ago #41153

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Quirky wrote:
hey guys, sorry to interrupt your debating, but I have a question. the 1 Corinthians verse that SdaLagacy cited also mentions the effeminate-guys that act feminine. would that be considered 'gay'? and also, (for SDALegacy) you said that gays won't enter into the kingdom of heaven. do you mean that there is no hope for them that they can't turn around and get right with God? I was just wondering :whistle: .....

No,they can turn around and change. But if they change they will no longer be gay, Will they?
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Homosexuality 3 years 1 month ago #41154

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Just making it clear, I do believe that Gays can change, but if they stay Gay they will not enter heaven. (refer to previous verse)
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Homosexuality 3 years 1 month ago #41245

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I'm not trying to force my opinions on anyone, but here's just something to think about--

SDALegacy mentioned 1 Corinthians 6:9, saying that the Bible states homosexuals will not be in Heaven. But please take note of the whole context. Paul lectures the believers because they are suing each other and taking the cases to a secular court, rather than to their own church believers (6:1-6).Then he goes on to say that they should not even be suing each other; they should just let it go. Instead, they are cheating each other in return (6:7-8). Finally, Paul reminds the brethren that people who do wrong will not enter Heaven. He gives them a list, which includes the homosexuals. But the list ALSO includes adulterers, idol worshipers, prostitutes, thieves, greedy people, drunkards, abusive people, and cheaters (6:9-10).

Now, please see this. Paul adds, "Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God" (6:11). The people were once sinners and homosexuals, but God changed them. He cleansed them and made them holy; He saved them because they called on His name. Homosexuals do not deserve to enter Heaven. None of us do because we're all sinners. But when we ask God, He will change us and purify us so we can go to Heaven. But, we need to be willing to let Him change us. If we are too proud to give up our old ways of life (including homosexuality), there is nothing God can do and we are not cleansed. (This is debatable because some say that gay people don't choose to be gay, and are therefore unable to change their lifestyle.)

Do you read me? All people, not just homosexuals, are unworthy of being in Heaven. All people, including you and me, deserve to be burned on earth. But, as stated in John 3:16, God loved us so much He was willing to sacrifice His only Son so sinners (including homosexuals) could be saved. All one needs to do is simply to accept His gift.

---

1 Corinthians 6:1-11

"When one of you has a dispute with another believer, how dare you file a lawsuit and ask a secular court to decide the matter instead of taking it to other believers! 2 Don’t you realize that someday we believers will judge the world? And since you are going to judge the world, can’t you decide even these little things among yourselves? 3 Don’t you realize that we will judge angels? So you should surely be able to resolve ordinary disputes in this life. 4 If you have legal disputes about such matters, why go to outside judges who are not respected by the church? 5 I am saying this to shame you. Isn’t there anyone in all the church who is wise enough to decide these issues? 6 But instead, one believer sues another—right in front of unbelievers!

7 "Even to have such lawsuits with one another is a defeat for you. Why not just accept the injustice and leave it at that? Why not let yourselves be cheated? 8 Instead, you yourselves are the ones who do wrong and cheat even your fellow believers.

9 "Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, 10 or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people—none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. 11 Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."

And by the way, if you want to look up those texts to make sure I'm speaking the truth (like the Bereans did), I took my texts from the New Living Translation (available on Bible Gateway). I don't usually use that version, but it was a whole lot easier to read and understand than the traditional King James Version. I would suggest reading out of that version when checking this up, because my facts are based off it. The New International Version or other modern versions would probably work too.
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Re: Homosexuality 2 years 11 months ago #41976

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If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them. Leviticus 20:13

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Hebrews 13:8
Are the things you're living for worth Christ dying for? -Leonard Ravenhill
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Homosexuality 2 years 11 months ago #42274

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So I am kinda new to guide but I enjoy theological discussions. Having had tons of discussions with Atheists, Deists and other I have a lot of real life experience. I think that gay marriage is evil but its not just what I think. We have to look at what God says. In the bible it does say it is an abomination. Looking at Leviticus 20:13 "If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them." it clearly says that death is their fate. Now when we talk to these people we first need to show them their sin and then share the Gospel.
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Homosexuality 2 years 11 months ago #42275

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Now I believe we should let them in our churches but the Bible clearly sates that its an abomination so I don't think they are going to heaven. About the part where you said we shouldn't tell them that they are sinning because we would be judging that is not love. Is it not love to not tell them that when they die they are going to a place of eternal fire? I think not. Also on the topic of judging, the bible says that we are to discern the spirits, how do we do that without judging. Now if you want look into the topic of judging in the Bible. First let's look at the the verse that people quote the most. In Mathew 7:1 it says "Judge not, that ye be not judged." but lets not stop there and keep on reading. "2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? So as I see it we shouldn't be telling others that they are wrong if we are living in sin ourselves. Just some thoughts but I urge you to look into it.
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Homosexuality 2 years 10 months ago #42638

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Tim33, read what 116Click said.
Are the things you're living for worth Christ dying for? -Leonard Ravenhill
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Homosexuality 2 years 9 months ago #43476

I have no problem with gays. I think gays are free to pursue whatever gender they like. But what people don't understand is that you cannot convert someones sexual orientation. It is probably possible to make them bisexual. It is like making a heterosexual person homosexual. You can't. If a gay person starts coming to my church I would actually be happy because I know that my church is on the right track attracting sinners towards God. I personally don't think gays will go to hell if they really show that they want to change for God even if it doesn't work.
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Homosexuality 2 years 9 months ago #43745

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Going4God wrote:
What about the fact that gays are dismembered from the adventist church? As far as I know, sdas are the only denomination that do that. If we're such a loving family, why don't we treat everyone equally?

Here's a verse talking about sexual immorality (like homosexuality is). 1st Corinthians 5:1-2 says "It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife. 2 And you are proud! Shouldn’t you rather have gone into mourning and have put out of your fellowship the man who has been doing this?"

It states that we should not have fellowship with a sexually immoral person. We should talk to them about their sin but not worship God with them. We should not treat everyone equally because God says homosexuals won't inherit His kingdom (1 Cor. 6:9).
Are the things you're living for worth Christ dying for? -Leonard Ravenhill
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Homosexuality 2 years 9 months ago #43976

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TrueBloodoftheTrueChrist wrote:
I have no problem with gays. I think gays are free to pursue whatever gender they like. But what people don't understand is that you cannot convert someones sexual orientation. It is probably possible to make them bisexual. It is like making a heterosexual person homosexual. You can't. If a gay person starts coming to my church I would actually be happy because I know that my church is on the right track attracting sinners towards God. I personally don't think gays will go to hell if they really show that they want to change for God even if it doesn't work.
The true Christ would not say that homosexuals are free to live like the unsaved. Just like Jesus was angry at the merchants in the temple,
Jesus will be angry with homosexuals (even if they go to church) until they turn to Him and turn away from homosexuality.

Gays are free to pursue whatever gender they like, but God’s law does not permit it. Deut. 22:5 A woman shall not wear anything that pertains to a man, nor shall a man put on a woman’s garment, for all who do so are an abomination to the LORD your God.

Below are some verses that strongly condemn homosexuality.
1Cor.6:9-10 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous. . . will inherit the kingdom of God.
Lev. 20:13. If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.
1Tim. 1:9-10 The law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine,
Are the things you're living for worth Christ dying for? -Leonard Ravenhill
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Homosexuality 2 years 9 months ago #44096

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@Prov17 I'd just like to point out that 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 actually uses the phrase 'Men who have sex with men' rather than 'Homosexuals' as you quote it. There is a difference- A homosexual is someone attracted to the same gender- It does not mean that the person is having sex with them. Being attracted to the opposite gender isn't sinful, acting on it is.

My point? It's only when we act on the attraction- whether homosexual or heterosexual that we sin. We all have sinful thoughts, but its what we do with those thoughts that counts. As I've read back through the whole conversation topic, I've noticed we're arguing from two different definitions.

To clear it up, this is the proper definition:

Homosexual: Being attracted to the same gender

Its not a sin unless we act on it- No where in the Bible does it say that having the attraction for either gender is sinful- only acting on that attraction.

Let me emphasise: Homosexuality isn't an action- its an attraction.

Yes, the Bible condemns intercourse between two people of the same gender, but never actually being homosexual
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Homosexuality 2 years 9 months ago #44147

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tim33 wrote:
@Prov17 I'd just like to point out that 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 actually uses the phrase 'Men who have sex with men' rather than 'Homosexuals' as you quote it. There is a difference- A homosexual is someone attracted to the same gender- It does not mean that the person is having sex with them. Being attracted to the opposite gender isn't sinful, acting on it is.

In the KJV, one of the first English translated bibles, it uses the word "effeminate", not any of the previous given words or phrases. Just sayin' :whistle:
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Homosexuality 2 years 9 months ago #44204

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@Prov17 Yeah, I know that Homosexuals sometimes choose to have same sex relationships- but they don't always, and as the act of having sexual relations with someone of the same gender is a sin- being homosexual isn't. There is a clear distinction here.

I read 116click's post- I agree with him in one sense- We should try and show everyone the gospel- but it's important to do it in a tactful manner- if we preach the straight to hell we'll do more harm than good.

Again- I don't want to take God's place and judge them as being lost or saved- God takes all kinds of things into account- not just our sexual orientation. I agree that the Bible is clear on how God sees sexual relationships outside of marriage- I am in no place to judge anyone- God knows everything about each person- I can't judge someone I hardly know. I don't want to put God out of a job.

@Quirky My point remains- the different versions of the Bible uses words or phrases like effeminate, or men sleeping with men- both very different to the word 'homosexual'
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Homosexuality 2 years 8 months ago #44267

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tim33 wrote:
@Prov17 I'd just like to point out that 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 actually uses the phrase 'Men who have sex with men' rather than 'Homosexuals' as you quote it. There is a difference- A homosexual is someone attracted to the same gender- It does not mean that the person is having sex with them. Being attracted to the opposite gender isn't sinful, acting on it is.

My point? It's only when we act on the attraction- whether homosexual or heterosexual that we sin. We all have sinful thoughts, but its what we do with those thoughts that counts. As I've read back through the whole conversation topic, I've noticed we're arguing from two different definitions.

To clear it up, this is the proper definition:

Homosexual: Being attracted to the same gender

Its not a sin unless we act on it- No where in the Bible does it say that having the attraction for either gender is sinful- only acting on that attraction.

Let me emphasise: Homosexuality isn't an action- its an attraction.

Yes, the Bible condemns intercourse between two people of the same gender, but never actually being homosexual


What you said sounds good on the surface but when probed deep proves to be false doctrine. Jesus said that if you even look at a woman lustfully, you have committed sin. That shows that our thoughts do count. Also he mark of the beast is on their foreheads (thoughts) and hand (actions). Jesus wants u to have both pure thoughts and actions.
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Homosexuality 2 years 8 months ago #44457

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@SDA Legacy- Okay, lets follow your argument to its logical conclusion.

You are basically saying it is wrong to be attracted to anyone.

Let me emphasise, attraction isn't lust- Lust is just wanting to have sex with them.

Attraction is liking a person and wanting to get to know them better.

I absolutely agree with you that God wants us to have pure thoughts, not lustful ones, but attraction isn't lustful.
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