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TOPIC: The Government

The Government 4 years 2 months ago #32047

Do you think the Government should have religion in it? :huh:
4,10... :+)
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Re: The Government 4 years 1 month ago #32458

definitely not! if you look at history every time church and state combined a great persecution broke out against those who had the truth.
"Some wish to live within the sound of a chapel bell, I wish to run a rescue mission within a yard of hell." -- C.T Studd 20th century missionary
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Re: The Government 4 years 1 month ago #32662

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notturningaside wrote:
definitely not! if you look at history every time church and state combined a great persecution broke out against those who had the truth.

Defiantly agree with you hear. Gov. should not be any respecter of any religion. That's why the first amendment is there :)
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Re: The Government 3 years 11 months ago #33954

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i would only accept SDA religion (that's my yes) but i say no becuz its highly likely that they (the government) will impliment first day church going and stuff (they'll do that soon though :dry: )
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Re: The Government 3 years 10 months ago #34678

Im gonna get all smart so watch out!

The term seperation of polictis and the state is saying that there sould be no political agression or bias in the government, the reason this is a big issue is because we belive in freedom of religion and statement of religion, and with a goverment of any religion is bound to want to force its belifes on others.this has happend all throughout history, and alot with the early countries after the religous refromation started by Martin Luther.
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The Government 2 years 4 months ago #48330

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No, because in America, that would be contradictory to the freedom of religion.
... Even if it gets me convicted
I’ll still be on my knees with my hands lifted ...
... If saying I believe is out of line
If I’m judged cause I’m gonna give my life
To show the world the love that fills me
Then I want to be Guilty ...
- Guilty by Newsboys
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The Government 2 years 4 months ago #48410

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I'm thinking yes. Because God should be in complete control and He's the founder of religion. Otherwise, no because they'll mix up and twist around the religion until it gets even more confusing than it is ;)
Sometimes we worry,
Sometimes we fret.
Sometimes we feel like
We can't move a step.

But God is still with us.
Keep Him in mind.
Trust in Him alway.
He is ever so kind.



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The Government 2 years 4 months ago #48440

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The concept of government was bestowed by God Himself, in fact He is a King, but the problem is that our governments sucks. But I guess that government and religion have been mixed, which is the leadership of a church. SO what is government?

A government is the system by which a state or community is controlled. In the Commonwealth of Nations, the word government is also used more narrowly to refer to the collective group of people that exercises executive authority in a state.

In short, it is the system of leading a group or community. But there are very few governments that mix Religion and Politics. And yes, I know that the minute that people will read this, they will be completely opposed and say, "But Skite, we are not talking about a small committees, but about big governments that lead countries and continents, and, and, you are so confusing and......", yeah that. But that's my opinion, thanks for reading, and I will be waiting the big counter-attack against this paragraph. Thank you and have a good day.
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Let me love for the lost
Let me lose all I have
For what I found on the cross
Let me trust you with my life
Let me live to give you praise
Lord, let me praise you
For the grace by which I'm saved
Lord, let me sing

- Chorus of "Let me sing" by Andrew Peterson
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The Government 2 years 4 months ago #48441

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Mp137 wrote:
No, because in America, that would be contradictory to the freedom of religion.

What do you mean contradictory? Also, we should remember that the U.S. isn't the ONLY country out there that has a government. I wish we could look at more models of government than what the U.S. can offer.
So let me sing for the love
Let me love for the lost
Let me lose all I have
For what I found on the cross
Let me trust you with my life
Let me live to give you praise
Lord, let me praise you
For the grace by which I'm saved
Lord, let me sing

- Chorus of "Let me sing" by Andrew Peterson
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The Government 2 years 4 months ago #48614

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Once they do, all the other religions would be forced to give up all their beliefs and go for the one that the government says is true. Yes, SDA laws are good in our case, but it would be offending for non-SDAs.


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The Government 2 years 4 months ago #48724

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Skite wrote:
Mp137 wrote:
No, because in America, that would be contradictory to the freedom of religion.

What do you mean contradictory? Also, we should remember that the U.S. isn't the ONLY country out there that has a government. I wish we could look at more models of government than what the U.S. can offer.

I was just giving an example. Yeah skite, i know the U.S. Isn't the only country with a government system. We can, (and do) look at different models of government. I just love my country, so I used it as an example. I hope you don't have a problem with freedom of speech. :dry:
... Even if it gets me convicted
I’ll still be on my knees with my hands lifted ...
... If saying I believe is out of line
If I’m judged cause I’m gonna give my life
To show the world the love that fills me
Then I want to be Guilty ...
- Guilty by Newsboys
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The Government 2 years 3 months ago #48763

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History has always proved that a combination of church and state is always a bad idea. The only country I can think of with a church-state combo that isn't doing too poorly is the United Kingdom, but even then, it took a lot of time for non-members of the Episcopal Communion to have the same rights as members.
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-Proverbs 31:6

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The Government 2 years 3 months ago #48769

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No.

Separation of church and state is vital to a free country.
After all, the 1st Amendment prohibits Congress from making a law that interferes with religion or the right to assemble (among other things).

Politics aside, it's still not a good idea.

If the wall between government and religion came down, it would have to pick a denomination. This would favor some people over others. Even if the minorities weren't persecuted, it would still be an unfair situation.

Skite wrote:
Mp137 wrote:
No, because in America, that would be contradictory to the freedom of religion.

What do you mean contradictory? Also, we should remember that the U.S. isn't the ONLY country out there that has a government. I wish we could look at more models of government than what the U.S. can offer.
As an American, I focus more on American laws & documents, like in this case the Bill of Rights in the Constitution. A good example of this scenario is the UK. (I think. Those who live in the UK, correct me if I'm wrong.) The official church is (obviously) the Church of England. I believe the monarch must be a member of the Church of England. Anyway, I don't think it causes a discrimination issue, but you get the idea.

In fact, I wouldn't be thrilled if the SDA church became the power. Here's why:

First, it might give people the impression of the SDA church being a political power, not the remnant, Bible-based people that we really are.
Second, God doesn't impose truth on people. He can show people the light, but He doesn't force people to accept it. Being a religious-political power would contradict our values.
Third, being in power would be too much of a distraction for SDA's, bringing us off our focus of carrying God's message to the world.
Smiling for Jesus
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The Government 2 years 3 months ago #48774

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Definitley not, because as soon as religion is introduced into the government system, the officials could quite possibly begin using it as an excuse to get what they want from the people. Also we probably wont be getting much of that Freedom of Religion stuff they talked about in the Bill of Rights :dry:
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The Government 2 years 3 months ago #48820

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I change my answer from yes and no to completely no. Reason: as Seventh Day Adventists we believe in freedom of conscience. Even if the government established Saturday as the true Sabbath and forced everyone to worship on that day it would be wrong because we wouldn't be allowing people to use their God-given gift of free will. God doesn't want a nation to serve Him because they have to. He wants them to serve Him because they want to. :)
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The Government 2 years 3 months ago #48836

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What about the law legalizing gay marriage, and the bakers being sued for not making a cake for a gay marriage? Isn't that breaking the 1st ammendment? :dry: :dry:
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The Government 2 years 3 months ago #48851

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COME ON!!! THE PROTESTANT REFORMATION WAS ALMOST COMPLETLY ABOUT SEPERARING CHURCH AND STATE!!! IF U R A PROTESTANT U SHOULD KNOW THIS!!! I'm out of breath whew! :P :P
This would be against freedom of conscience which..... Is not good . That's forcing somebody to believe something they think is wrong soooo..... That's not good....
before you say im a mouse google tufted titmouse
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Re: The Government 2 years 3 months ago #48857

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Inotturningaside wrote:
definitely not! if you look at history every time church and state combined a great persecution broke out against those who had the truth.
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Re: The Government 2 years 3 months ago #48858

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I total agrea with you, noturningaside.The government should think about what is just,not with religon should be followed because there are so many denominations and religons.notturningaside wrote:
definitely not! if you look at history every time church and state combined a great persecution broke out against those who had the truth.
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The Government 2 years 3 months ago #48874

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No because the government is already gonna make Sunday the only day to go to church. And Seventh Day Adventist are gonna be in deep trouble. I personally wish that religion would jus stay away from the government. But the only way to make Jesus come back is for all these scary bad things to happen :(
;) GOD ♡ U ...... I ♡ U
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The Government 2 years 3 months ago #48886

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smileygon10 wrote:
No.

Separation of church and state is vital to a free country.
After all, the 1st Amendment prohibits Congress from making a law that interferes with religion or the right to assemble (among other things).

Politics aside, it's still not a good idea.

If the wall between government and religion came down, it would have to pick a denomination. This would favor some people over others. Even if the minorities weren't persecuted, it would still be an unfair situation.

Skite wrote:
Mp137 wrote:
No, because in America, that would be contradictory to the freedom of religion.

What do you mean contradictory? Also, we should remember that the U.S. isn't the ONLY country out there that has a government. I wish we could look at more models of government than what the U.S. can offer.
As an American, I focus more on American laws & documents, like in this case the Bill of Rights in the Constitution. A good example of this scenario is the UK. (I think. Those who live in the UK, correct me if I'm wrong.) The official church is (obviously) the Church of England. I believe the monarch must be a member of the Church of England. Anyway, I don't think it causes a discrimination issue, but you get the idea.

In fact, I wouldn't be thrilled if the SDA church became the power. Here's why:

First, it might give people the impression of the SDA church being a political power, not the remnant, Bible-based people that we really are.
Second, God doesn't impose truth on people. He can show people the light, but He doesn't force people to accept it. Being a religious-political power would contradict our values.
Third, being in power would be too much of a distraction for SDA's, bringing us off our focus of carrying God's message to the world.

Wow. Extremely well said. I can never get what I'm thinking to sound like that... Kudos!!
... Even if it gets me convicted
I’ll still be on my knees with my hands lifted ...
... If saying I believe is out of line
If I’m judged cause I’m gonna give my life
To show the world the love that fills me
Then I want to be Guilty ...
- Guilty by Newsboys
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The Government 2 years 1 month ago #50847

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In America, the First Amendment guarantees us the freedom of religion, speech, assembly, petitioning, and press. In addition, it prohibits Congress from creating a law that would establish a state religion, be it Islam, Christianity, Judaism, or Hinduism. This is important because it means we can freely worship whoever we choose without punishment from the government. A state church is a way for the govenment to become way to powerful.
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The Government 2 years 1 month ago #51050

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I firmly believe that a government should be guided by morality, not by religion. It is morally wrong to take what is not yours. It is morally wrong to destroy someone else's property. It is morally wrong to sexually assault someone. It is morally wrong to take a life without due cause. Religion and morals often coexist, but sometimes they diverge. In the context of a government, morality must always prevail over religious values or we risk repeating history.

As Seventh-day Adventists, we must understand that the whole reason our church is in existence is not because of the Great Millerite Disappointment of 1844. We are a part of the greater Protestant Church, which split from the Catholic Church because it was, in short, dabbling too much in secular affairs. Many Protestants know that they're Protestant, but they often forget what that means. Many of those I speak to in the US alone often forget why our country was founded on freedom of expression and a separation of church and state. History has not forgotten the Spanish Inquisition, which, by order of King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella, tortured Spanish Protestants, Jews, and Muslims into converting to the Catholic faith. If still they did not convert, they were burned at the stake. Nor has history forgotten August 24, 1572, on which day Queen Catherine de Medici of France prodded Catholic mobs to slaughter nearly 70,000 Huguenots across the French provinces, filling the Rhine with so many bodies that the peasantry could not drink its water for three months. Modern-day examples include totalitarian regimes in the Middle East that persecute Christians and force them to convert to Islam.

Though extreme, these examples help prove my point that religion, when mixed with politics, rarely has a good outcome. By propagating and supporting the union of church and state (and to a greater extent, church and state values), we are leaving the door wide open for governments to dictate what day we worship on without so much as a blink.
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The Government 2 years 1 month ago #51291

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I am very curious to find out why:

@Quirky was saying that if SDAs supposedly governed a specific country they would FORCE a Sabbath law? And Quirky mentioned in the same paragraph that we SDAs believe in Freedom of Conscience.

@Smileygon mentioned that if Religion and Politics mixed, they would HAVE to pick a particular religion. Why is that? I would like to mention, that although the UK has selected a particular church, there is still religious freedom.

@mylhu1011, I'd like to let you know that what happened in France and Spain, was also because of what TYPE of government was in these countries, which were Monarchies. Also, morality came from religion, and many of our religious values are many of the laws we have in many of our countries who are led by Democratic Governments. And why would you place a difference between morality and Religious values?

I also want to add, that most of these problems when Religion and Politics were mixed, was because of the Catholics.

Please answer these questions and clarify some of your opinions.
So let me sing for the love
Let me love for the lost
Let me lose all I have
For what I found on the cross
Let me trust you with my life
Let me live to give you praise
Lord, let me praise you
For the grace by which I'm saved
Lord, let me sing

- Chorus of "Let me sing" by Andrew Peterson
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The Government 2 years 1 month ago #51301

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Skite wrote:
I'd like to let you know that what happened in France and Spain, was also because of what TYPE of government was in these countries, which were Monarchies.

I can just as easily use the persecution of Calvinists, Puritans, Jesuits, and regular Catholics throughout England's history as an example. Europe as a whole was comprised of monarchies and empires until the French Revolution. England was an example of a constitutional monarchy (laws had to be passed through Parliament), so nothing could be done without the people's consent. And still religious persecution occurred at the hands of the dominant (and state mandated) religious group, the Anglican Church.
Skite wrote:
Also, morality came from religion, and many of our religious values are many of the laws we have in many of our countries who are led by Democratic Governments. And why would you place a difference between morality and Religious values?

Morality as a concept has been around since the birth of humanity and is separate from religion, although religion often takes these basic principles and uses them as key tenets to glorify a higher power. For example, we know it's wrong to physically hurt someone because it causes them pain. We know it's wrong to kill someone because it hurts their loved ones and makes us feel guilty. We know it's wrong to take something that's not ours because everyone works hard for what they have. Israelites knew these things before the Ten Commandments and the book of Leviticus were written, but God's holy Word codified each principle in a comprehensive manner. No doubt this was the same with people from parts of the world outside of the Levant.

As for your point about religious values forming laws in democratic countries, keep in mind that this only applies in European democracies and their descendants (i.e. the USA). But even some countries like France, which was largely Catholic prior to the French Revolution, don't take religious values into account when deciding on their constitution and passing laws. Europe and North America do not constitute the world, after all, and there are many countries that don't base their laws off religious concepts.
Skite wrote:
I also want to add, that most of these problems when Religion and Politics were mixed, was because of the Catholics.

Reference my above comment about the English persecution of Catholics. There's also the Shinto-Buddhist persecution of Christians in Japan, the Hindu persecution of Buddhists and Muslims in India, and the Muslim persecution of Christians across the Middle East.
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