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TOPIC: Supreme Court Legalizes Same-Sex Marriage in all 50 States

Supreme Court Legalizes Same-Sex Marriage in all 50 States 2 years 6 months ago #49127

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Quirky wrote:
I'm sorry @Inspiredthinker, but some of your comments kind of disturbed me. I shared the Women Pastors forum with a family friend of ours and how some of us are for woman ordination even though there are scriptures (kind of indirectly) speaking against it. He said that those who were for woman's ordination would be in agreement with gay marriage. At first I was skeptical because I was sure you guys wouldn't go that far but now as I listen to you say that you think it was right for the government to establish gay marriage it scares me because I don't understand why you think that a law that will cause a lot of people to transgress the law of God is okay. I just don't understand. Do you think you could explain?

Legally speaking, I agree with the Court's decision. However, God created marriage in Eden between and a woman. I do not agree with homosexuality.
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Supreme Court Legalizes Same-Sex Marriage in all 50 States 2 years 6 months ago #49128

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tim33 wrote:
chocolatedancer1106, ken10wil and InspiredThinker I pretty much agree with all of you. InspiredThinker, I'm pretty sure we share the same views on this, and I have a lot of respect for you, I think you present a pretty well balanced view of things. But, we're probably among the older guide fans, I still remember Berrygirl13 and DaughterofGod12.

A homosexual is someone attracted to the same gender- It does not mean that the person is having sex with them. Being attracted to the opposite gender isn't sinful, acting on it is.

My point? It's only when we act on the attraction- whether homosexual or heterosexual that we sin. We all have sinful thoughts, but its what we do with those thoughts that counts.

In regard to the Supreme Court's decision, I agree with InspiredThinker, I agree that same sex couples should get the same governmental rights as married couples. Whether the Supreme Court has the right to redefine marriage is debatable- Marriage is by definition a Judeo-Christian term. That's where I think that the ruling may have been wrong- what right does the government have to redefine a religious definition? Something to think about. InspiredThinker, you're absolutely right about tax exemption. I guess the other big issue is how much will this infringe on religious rights- will churches be made to marry homosexual couples, ect.

I must admit while there has been a lot of talk about other wedding services like baking a cake for a homosexual wedding- Once you start discriminating, when do you stop? Do you refuse to serve straight couples that have had sex before marriage? A clear contradiction of Christian beliefs. I think the supreme court was basically right in it's ruling as far as governmental rights goes. but the issues it raises are intricate and complicated, and finding the balance between religious freedom and individual rights is tricky.

Thank you. I respect you a lot as well, and I agree with what you said. I don't see the bakers that refuse to bake cakes for gay couples refuse to bake cakes for fornicators, adulterers, or people that eat pork, shellfish, and other unclean meats. Homosexuality is condemned in the Bible, but so is a bunch of other stuff. Why don't we condemn those people?
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Supreme Court Legalizes Same-Sex Marriage in all 50 States 2 years 6 months ago #49160

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@Quirky, I know I'm not InspiredThinker, but I agree with him.

Let me emphasise, I am in no way suggesting that I agree with homosexual marriage. The Bible is very clear that God doesn't approve of Homosexual relationships. On the that basis I have to follow what God says.

However, My question would be, to what extent should the government control morality? There are clearly boundaries, like murder is unacceptable. However, if we rule against giving rights to homosexual couples on the basis of religion, then should we also remove the rights of heterosexual couples that have had sex before marriage? -A sin that is equally wrong in God's eyes.

I'm still not sure whether the supreme court got it right or not, I'm just trying to emphasise that this is an issue that is somewhat ambiguous. Do we have the right to force our beliefs on others, I'm not so sure about that.

I'm a straight down the line Seventh Day Adventist, I'm proud of our beliefs. This isn't the time to compromise them.

One of the things to take into considerance in understanding the debate about women's ordination is that there are Godly and earnest church members on both sides of the table. David Asscherick points this out- Women's ordination isn't directly addressed in the Bible- both sides base their arguments on Biblical evidence. It's not a clear cut case of goodies against baddies.

On the other hand the Bible's stance on Homosexual behaviour is clear. Let me emphasis, I am in no way supporting homosexual marriage- I'm just not sure I have the right to stop these people the receiving governmental rights they seem entitled to.
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Supreme Court Legalizes Same-Sex Marriage in all 50 States 2 years 6 months ago #49252

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*Sigh* okay, I guess I kind of see what you guys are saying. I still don't agree though. I mean, how long will it be until you can be tossed into prison for speaking openly against gay marriage, or fined because you refused to hold a wedding ceremony for a gay or lesbian couple? To legalize something like this takes away freedom of speech and conscience for the masses. That's my whole problem. And, like I kind of said before, to condone gay marriage rights is to say that it's okay to openly practice homosexquality. I know you guys are saying that you are against gay marriage, so why would you approve of a law that goes against your beliefs? Yes, murder is sin, and so is fornication, adultery, and lying. Why we aren't preaching against these things is probably because they are so obvious. Homosexuality however isn't as obvious. I mean, some people think that gays were just "born that way" and they can't help it. I don't know, am I making any sense? I feel like I'm all over the place this is just stuff coming t i my mind. Does what I'm saying make any sense to you guys?
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Supreme Court Legalizes Same-Sex Marriage in all 50 States 2 years 6 months ago #49365

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@Quirky, Yeah, what you're saying makes sense- There's always two sides to an argument. I can see your point- its a good one. I'm not completely decided myself. I mean: Have we taken into account children? Two adults choosing to live together in a homosexual relationship may be within their rights- but should they be allowed to have children via adoption or surrogacy? I think children have the right to grow up within a heterosexual relationship. There is a lot of evidence to suggest that children need both a mother and a father in their lives for them to be healthy.

I don't think to allow homosexual marriage is to say its okay. God allows us free choice- even though sin isn't okay. God allows our sinful world to exist- even though it's not right. I would never forcibly stop non-Christians from working on Sabbath- even though I think it is wrong.

Yes, it has the potential to take away freedom of speech and religion. It doesn't have to- but it certainly could. I'm just as concerned about that as you are. Hopefully though, the government can find a way to honour freedom of religion and the decision the supreme court has made.
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Supreme Court Legalizes Same-Sex Marriage in all 50 States 1 month 4 days ago #90151

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ken10wil wrote:
guys I don't think yall realized the point

god never forced anyone to stop sinning so who are we to

also we live in the U.S.A where you have the freedom to do what you want as long as its not harming someone else. So unless your neighbor being gay is gonna cause you emotional or physical harm you really have no point. No one said that being gay is right. drinking is wrong but its still legal. all im saying the us was made with freedom in mind whether that freedom is right or wrong that's not the point. and for he same reason you should ban homosexuality someone can say Christianity is a threat and ban us too (actually they already tried) so my only problem is the way homosexual marriage is treated in society as for the law I say let it pass you should be worrying about your spiritual walk not trying to dictate someone else's. So if you want to have your freedoms that may offend someone else allow your fellow American to do he same. (oh and for those who will make a point of it the majority of alcohol related incidents could be avoided if people paid attention to the DRINK RESPONSIBLY at the end of ads and in the notices at liquor stores) this is my opinion have a nice day.

Ken10wil, Jesus whipped merchants out of His temple. Jesus said, “This is my Father’s house, but you have turned it into a den of thieves!” Apparently Jesus forced people to stop sinning in God’s temple, although I’m sure some would call that “unloving”.

Apparently when gay couples can’t get what they want with Christians who refuse to provide flowers or cake for a gay wedding, cops get called, Christians gets fined, and homosexuals get what they want, all because they claim it is hateful not to give them service. Wait a minute. Freedom of speech? Freedom to exercise religion? The Christian doesn’t always get a fair trial, and all because he’s accused of “hate speech”. The First Amendment allows freedom of speech and religion (even when it offends). A Christian has the right to not provide flowers or a cake because Christians aren’t the only ones in business, and they aren’t infringing on anyone’s choice. Homosexuals can walk past “Five Loaves Bakery” and go to another bakery that doesn’t have a moral reason to deny service.

Today’s society embraces same-sex marriage. Some Christian churches do too. The reason Bible-believing Christians shouldn’t let homosexuals in their churches is because of what 1 Corinthians 5:1-2 says. "It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife. And you are proud! Shouldn’t you rather have gone into mourning and have put out of your fellowship the man who has been doing this?"

You said we should worry about our walk with Christ rather than dictate another’s walk. Christians aren’t whipping homosexuals or putting them in jail (like a dictator would). Smart Christians stand out on a street holding a sign that says homosexuality is sin. Homosexuals have the freedom to not look at the sign. They can walk away and ignore those who call Sodomy sin. Or they can be calm and talk to the Christian holding such a “judgmental” sign. Holding a sign condemning homosexuality is not dictating to homosexuals. That’s a peaceful protest.

A homosexual’s behavior wouldn’t offend me so much if it didn’t offend God. But homosexual behavior does offend me because their behavior offends God. It also breaks God’s moral law and infuriates God. God burned Sodom and Gomorrah for their sexual immorality. Jude 7 says, “Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”. For me to not take a homosexual’s behavior to task when God wanted me to, I would be shirking my responsibility to God.
Romans 8:13, "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live."

Galatians 5:16, "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh."
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Supreme Court Legalizes Same-Sex Marriage in all 50 States 1 month 3 days ago #90181

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It just doesn't make sense to me. I mean God created Adam and Eve. Not Adam and Steve. :(
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Every moment of my wondering,
Never changes wut u see,
I've tried to win this war I confess,
My hands are weary I need your rest,
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No matter wut I face your by my side.
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Supreme Court Legalizes Same-Sex Marriage in all 50 States 1 month 3 days ago #90187

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Prov17 wrote:
ken10wil wrote:
guys I don't think yall realized the point

god never forced anyone to stop sinning so who are we to

also we live in the U.S.A where you have the freedom to do what you want as long as its not harming someone else. So unless your neighbor being gay is gonna cause you emotional or physical harm you really have no point. No one said that being gay is right. drinking is wrong but its still legal. all im saying the us was made with freedom in mind whether that freedom is right or wrong that's not the point. and for he same reason you should ban homosexuality someone can say Christianity is a threat and ban us too (actually they already tried) so my only problem is the way homosexual marriage is treated in society as for the law I say let it pass you should be worrying about your spiritual walk not trying to dictate someone else's. So if you want to have your freedoms that may offend someone else allow your fellow American to do he same. (oh and for those who will make a point of it the majority of alcohol related incidents could be avoided if people paid attention to the DRINK RESPONSIBLY at the end of ads and in the notices at liquor stores) this is my opinion have a nice day.

Ken10wil, Jesus whipped merchants out of His temple. Jesus said, “This is my Father’s house, but you have turned it into a den of thieves!” Apparently Jesus forced people to stop sinning in God’s temple, although I’m sure some would call that “unloving”.

Apparently when gay couples can’t get what they want with Christians who refuse to provide flowers or cake for a gay wedding, cops get called, Christians gets fined, and homosexuals get what they want, all because they claim it is hateful not to give them service. Wait a minute. Freedom of speech? Freedom to exercise religion? The Christian doesn’t always get a fair trial, and all because he’s accused of “hate speech”. The First Amendment allows freedom of speech and religion (even when it offends). A Christian has the right to not provide flowers or a cake because Christians aren’t the only ones in business, and they aren’t infringing on anyone’s choice. Homosexuals can walk past “Five Loaves Bakery” and go to another bakery that doesn’t have a moral reason to deny service.

Today’s society embraces same-sex marriage. Some Christian churches do too. The reason Bible-believing Christians shouldn’t let homosexuals in their churches is because of what 1 Corinthians 5:1-2 says. "It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife. And you are proud! Shouldn’t you rather have gone into mourning and have put out of your fellowship the man who has been doing this?"

You said we should worry about our walk with Christ rather than dictate another’s walk. Christians aren’t whipping homosexuals or putting them in jail (like a dictator would). Smart Christians stand out on a street holding a sign that says homosexuality is sin. Homosexuals have the freedom to not look at the sign. They can walk away and ignore those who call Sodomy sin. Or they can be calm and talk to the Christian holding such a “judgmental” sign. Holding a sign condemning homosexuality is not dictating to homosexuals. That’s a peaceful protest.

A homosexual’s behavior wouldn’t offend me so much if it didn’t offend God. But homosexual behavior does offend me because their behavior offends God. It also breaks God’s moral law and infuriates God. God burned Sodom and Gomorrah for their sexual immorality. Jude 7 says, “Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”. For me to not take a homosexual’s behavior to task when God wanted me to, I would be shirking my responsibility to God.

"Ken10wil, Jesus whipped merchants out of His temple. Jesus said, “This is my Father’s house, but you have turned it into a den of thieves!” Apparently Jesus forced people to stop sinning in God’s temple, although I’m sure some would call that “unloving”."

When was America God's temple?

"Apparently when gay couples can’t get what they want with Christians who refuse to provide flowers or cake for a gay wedding, cops get called, Christians gets fined, and homosexuals get what they want, all because they claim it is hateful not to give them service. Wait a minute. Freedom of speech? Freedom to exercise religion? The Christian doesn’t always get a fair trial, and all because he’s accused of “hate speech”. The First Amendment allows freedom of speech and religion (even when it offends). A Christian has the right to not provide flowers or a cake because Christians aren’t the only ones in business, and they aren’t infringing on anyone’s choice. Homosexuals can walk past “Five Loaves Bakery” and go to another bakery that doesn’t have a moral reason to deny service."

What are you talking about? This has nothing to do with the topic at hand which is the supreme court legalizing same-sex marriage. This is another issue. First of all, rejecting to do service for a gay wedding isn't a violation of freedom of speech, that's a failure to do advertised business with a person for their sexuality. How are you supposed to blame a government for not allowing you to reject business with someone who has no control over his sexuality. It's hate speech in the eyes of anyone who doesn't oppose gays. It's a very iffy situation but you can't say the government is bad because they don't want you, in their eyes, to discriminate because of something that can't be controlled. Also don't tell me that it is a choice. You have no idea on the matter and you can't just get away with this argument by saying "Oh, it's a choice so they could just all over 10% of them just change back to being straight in a heartbeat."

"Today’s society embraces same-sex marriage. Some Christian churches do too. The reason Bible-believing Christians shouldn’t let homosexuals in their churches is because of what 1 Corinthians 5:1-2 says. "It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife. And you are proud! Shouldn’t you rather have gone into mourning and have put out of your fellowship the man who has been doing this?" "

"Shouldn’t you rather have gone into mourning and have put out of your fellowship the man who has been doing this?" Let me quote this again, "Shouldn’t you rather have gone into mourning and have put out of your fellowship the man who has been doing this?" Fellowship doesn't mean discriminating and judging them. Woah that's crazy huh.

"You said we should worry about our walk with Christ rather than dictate another’s walk. Christians aren’t whipping homosexuals or putting them in jail (like a dictator would). Smart Christians stand out on a street holding a sign that says homosexuality is sin. Homosexuals have the freedom to not look at the sign. They can walk away and ignore those who call Sodomy sin. Or they can be calm and talk to the Christian holding such a “judgmental” sign. Holding a sign condemning homosexuality is not dictating to homosexuals. That’s a peaceful protest." "

Yep freedom of speech. I mean you are right, you shouldn't be discriminated against for your opinions you just look like rude people who aren't changing anything but only enforcing the hate of homosexuals of you people. People like you are what make homosexuals hate the church and hate people who just judge all the time and think negative all the time.

"A homosexual’s behavior wouldn’t offend me so much if it didn’t offend God. But homosexual behavior does offend me because their behavior offends God. It also breaks God’s moral law and infuriates God. God burned Sodom and Gomorrah for their sexual immorality. Jude 7 says, “Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”. For me to not take a homosexual’s behavior to task when God wanted me to, I would be shirking my responsibility to God."

I think being gay wasnt the only reason Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed. I think it was way more terrible than that. I mean that place had a culture of rape and incest. It wasn't just about gays I'm sure of it.
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Last Edit: 4 weeks 1 day ago by SRNitro. Reason: Grammatical error which changes my while argument.
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Supreme Court Legalizes Same-Sex Marriage in all 50 States 1 month 2 days ago #90207

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SRNitro, You were looking at a post where I’m replying to ken10wil’s comments (in case you didn’t catch that).
Furthermore, don’t be so “hateful” and “discriminatory” to my post. I was “born” the way I am, a “hater”.

{Please note, the last two sentences with quotes are sarcasm to show how contradictory people can be when they respond to something that they disagree with.}
Romans 8:13, "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live."

Galatians 5:16, "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh."
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Supreme Court Legalizes Same-Sex Marriage in all 50 States 4 weeks 2 days ago #90314

@quirky Legalizing same sex marriage and a baker getting fined for not baking a cake for a gay couple are two different things, just because it is legalized doesn't mean that we have to change our beliefs.

While there are people that will try to change our beliefs, that doesn't make the law a problem, it's the people. Plus, the whole issue with the baker and freedom is and should be adressed separately from the gay marriage law. They are not the same issue.
You just wasted your time reading this meaningless signature...
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Supreme Court Legalizes Same-Sex Marriage in all 50 States 4 weeks 1 day ago #90349

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Prov17 wrote:
SRNitro, You were looking at a post where I’m replying to ken10wil’s comments (in case you didn’t catch that).
Furthermore, don’t be so “hateful” and “discriminatory” to my post. I was “born” the way I am, a “hater”.

{Please note, the last two sentences with quotes are sarcasm to show how contradictory people can be when they respond to something that they disagree with.}
I know you were responding to him. What's that supposed to add? Also your second argument makes no sense. You're saying that because I challenged you and said that homosexuals think that the church is all negative from examples like you who protest, that now I'm discriminating. I'm not. I'm telling you to stop hurting others. There's a difference between calling someone out for judging others and steering people away from the church for their own benefit, and calliing someone out who isn't hurting anybody but may be less judgemental and more kind than most Christians is kind of missing the point. Then you compare being born gay to being born a hater? One's a choice and one's not. Hating on others, yes it's a sin, and I understand that I hate also when I shouldn't, but your hating is hurting others and how can you not expect for someone to challenge you when you go on a controversial topic and give your opinions? Do you not want me to tell you it's wrong when you're obviously debating? If a gay person came here and asked if it was wrong, of course I would tell him the truth, but there's a difference between that and forcing your judgment down their throats. It seems to be more and more to be less about homosexuals' salvation but more about protesting Christians' insecurities.

And that's how I think about your ideas that you presented in a debate thread.
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