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Responses

- Re: Should the sabbath be kept? from snowflake139, 11/7/2009

Remember when God gave the Israelites the ten commandments? God gave those laws for a reason. So if God said to honor the seventh day, and rest on it, don't you think that we should keep the sabbath? Here's another example. Jesus came on earth for two reasons. One, He came to die for us. And two, He came to be an example to follow. In the Bible, Jesus kept the sabbath. If He came and kept the sabbath, we should too. So, I hope you understand now! :D

- Re: Should the sabbath be kept? from swimfish47, 11/8/2009

We still need to keep the Sabbath even though it isn't essential to our salvation, because it's what God wants us to do. If your mom told you to go clean your room, and you didn't, she would still love you, and might even clean your room for you. In this way, God will still love and save you if you don't keep the Sabbath, but you should keep the Sabbath to show that you care.

- Re: Should the sabbath be kept? from PastorShayne, 11/10/2009

We keep the Sabbath because we are saved, never to be saved. I wear a wedding ring 'cause I love my wife, not to make her love me. I keep the Sabbath 'cause I love my God, not to make Him love me.
It is also important to know what Paul was really talking about in each book you referred to.
In Colossians Paul was addressing the lies that a group was spreading in church. Lies like: all material things (things to do with life on earth) were evil, salvation was found in secret mysteries only they knew about, and Jesus was just another good man. He wasn't referring to the 7th day, but celebrations that this group was claiming to be evil.
In Galatians Paul was arguing against a group who were trying to get the Christians to focus on circumcision as the way they were saved. That was the ceremonial law not the 10 commandments.

- Re: Should the sabbath be kept? from Amy4amy, 11/11/2009

I think that the Sabbath should be kept. if you really love the LORD you will keep it. It musn't feel like a burden to you because if ti does than you should pray to God to help you to be strong in your faith and try to rekindel you frienship with Him. Hope it helps CHEERS!!!!

- Re: Should the sabbath be kept? from Size10, 11/13/2009

Genisis 2:2-3: "And on the SEVENTH DAY God ended his work which He had made;and he RESTED on the SEVENTH DAY from alla his work which he had made." vs 3: " And God BLESSED the seventh day, and SANCTIFIED it, because that in it he had rested from all His work which God had created and made"

- Re: Should the sabbath be kept? from Name Withheld, 11/16/2009

But paul specifically says that the 10 commandments are part of the old covenent and are not necessary for salvation, and that we are rescued by faith through grace

- Re: Should the sabbath be kept? from PastorShayne, 11/17/2009

OK, let's check out the references where Paul specifically says the 10 commandments are part of the old covenant. Which ones are you talking about?

- Re: Should the sabbath be kept? from Name Withheld, 11/26/2009

Because in galations 3 it talks about how we are not bound to the law. then it says specifically in galations 3:17. He referred to when the ten commandments where given to moses. Then paul goes on to talk about how we do not have to follow the law, but live by faith. Also look at galations 5:14

- Re: Should the sabbath be kept? from SnowBear, 12/2/2009

hi here is what i think, you are right that keeping the 10 commandments isn't going to get us to Heaven, but it's a sign of our devotion to God. as i see it, i wouldnt expect to get to heaven if i constantly murdered someone, did adultery, stole, etc., because that's a sin right? but it's the 10 commandments. and i dont necessarily think that ONLY seventh day adventists are going to go to heaven, but it is God's special day that he created for us to enjoy and to keep holy as an example of our loyalty to Him.

- Re: Should the sabbath be kept? from PastorShayne, 12/3/2009

The most important thing we need to try find is the overall & original purpose of the author. Because it wasn't written to us originally this might not be as easy as we think.
In Gal, Paul doesn't make that clear right away, he doesn't just get right to the point. He builds up to it in the first 4 chaps, then in chap 5 he lays it out. All that he wrote in chap 1-4 was to lead his readers to what he said in 5:2+ and repeats in 6:11+.
His main purpose in writing was to argue against a group of Jews who came in claiming that in order to be saved and be a true child of God you needed to be circumcised and keep the Jewish rituals.

- Re: Should the sabbath be kept? from PastorShayne, 12/3/2009

In Gal, keeping the 10 commandments weren't the issue for Paul. His issue was against circumcision as a means for salvation.
So when you read chap 3, notice that he's not saying don't keep the law (the 10), but don't RELY on keeping them for salvation. He also explains how the 10 and grace work together but how we are made right by faith. He makes it clear how that has always been the case, even before Christ died for us.
In 5:13-14 his point is putting others first instead of just thinking of ourselves. He's not replacing the 10, but summing them up. We could sum up all the traffic laws as: drive in a way that is safe for you and others. That doesn't replace all the laws, I can still get a ticket if a run a stop sign, even if no one else was coming the other way.
Paul never mentions the word Sabbath in Gal. If he were concerned about keeping it, wouldn't he had mentioned it? But he does specifically, and strongly, speak against circumcision.

- Re: Should the sabbath be kept? from Name Withheld, 12/3/2009

Okay.. In response to pastor shayne, look at galations 3:17-18. It says that God gave the law 430 years after Abraham. so the whole time paul is talking, he is talking about the ten commandments. Thing is, the ceremonial and circumcision laws were given over a period of time. Many examples of this are in exodus and numbers. But the ten commandments were given at one time, not spread out like the ceremonial laws. In hebrews 4 it shows how every day should be a rest in God, not one day more than others. And then galations says we are to live by faith, not the law. And by the philosophy you are using, you don't have to get circumcised, you just should (which is not necessary at all).

- Re: Should the sabbath be kept? from PastorShayne, 12/11/2009

I agree with you, Paul is saying we are saved by and live by faith, not the law! But I point out again that he is not telling us to STOP keeping the 10. He is only saying that our salvation is not dependant on what we do, whether it is ceremonial or the 10, it is only thru our faith. In Romans Paul explains that before salvation the 10 do nothing for me but make me aware of my sin. After I’m saved they are the foundation for my continuing relationship with God. By faith in Jesus alone I am saved, and because I am saved I can now live according to God’s law. The 9th commandment says lying is wrong, so I try not to lie. But that doesn’t mean that I try not to lie so that I will be saved. Commandment 2 says not to have idols, so I try not to allow anything to be more important to me than God. But that doesn’t mean that I do that so I’ll be saved. No, I keep the 10 because I am saved, because they keep my relationship with God safe and growing. It seems silly to me to think of removing a law from the middle of the 10. You wouldn’t tell me that I should stop obeying any of the others would you?

- Re: Should the sabbath be kept? from PastorShayne, 12/11/2009

Heb 4 isn’t saying the 7th day Sabbath is no longer relevant ‘cause now everyday is ‘sabbath’. The author is using the 4th commandment as an analogy for us: God rested on day 7 ‘cause everything in creation was complete; we rest ‘today’ ‘cause Jesus made everything for our salvation complete. The quote in Heb 4:3 is a reference to the first generation of Israelites wandering around in the desert ‘cause of their disobedience. The larger context that Heb 4 is a part of is an attempt to persuade the readers to accept Jesus: He had to become like us (chap 2), He was greater than Moses -the Jewish hero (chap 3), He is our rest (chap 4), and He has become our high priest in heaven (chap 5). Heb 4:6 “There remains a rest…” implies that because Israel never entered or experienced God’s rest there was still an opportunity for others to. Kinda like because no one is sitting in that chair it is still open for someone to sit in. But Israel did keep the 7th day Sabbath, so it must not be talking about the 4th commandment here when it talks about ‘rest’. This rest is salvation. It’s called ‘rest’ ‘cause God already completed all that needed to be done and there is nothing more we can do. Heb 4:2 says to combine the gospel message we hear with faith. The author’s saying, “Don’t just hear the message of Jesus, believe it!” And 4:10 says we enter God’s rest when we stop trying to be saved by our works. Salvation is by faith.

- Re: Should the sabbath be kept? from Name Withheld, 12/16/2009

first pastor shayne, you were saying that galations is only talking about circumcision and the ceremonial laws, but now you admitted that paul was talking about the ten commandments too. and look at galations 3:19-25. It says that BEFORE Christ came, we needed to follow the law. Look especially at galations 3:25. "Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law" This clearly states that we are not under the law anymore, and that we only need to live by faith!

- Re: Should the sabbath be kept? from PastorShayne, 12/18/2009

Yes, Paul does talk about the 10, but I the point that I still make is that the main reason He wrote the letter was to respond to people who were telling the Galatians that they needed to be circumcised and keep the ceremonial law to be saved. We both agree that he wanted to make sure they knew that they were saved only thru faith in Christ. But that is not the same as him saying that the law is null and void.

But, let’s say I ignore that and agree that Gal says the 10 are not important any more. Let’s compare this view of the law with other scripture, much of it from Paul.

We need the law to know what sin is (Rom 3:20). Sin is breaking the law (1 Jn 3:4). The law leads us to Christ, showing us our need for the Savior (Gal 24). The sinful mind is hostile to God and doesn’t submit to God’s law (Rom 8:7). But the (Christian) who does what the law says will be blessed (James 1:25). He will delight in God’s law (Rom 7:22). The law is holy, and the commandments are holy, ri

- Re: Should the sabbath be kept? from PastorShayne, 12/18/2009

(Continued)
If the sinful mind doesn’t submit to God’s law, doesn’t that imply that the person controlled by the Holy Spirit does submit to God’s law? If sin is the breaking of God’s law and if after Christ comes there is no more need for the law, does that also mean that I won’t ever sin again?

If the 10 are requirements that God has for everybody at all times, why would He expect us to live up to them before we accept Jesus but not after? So He wants me to honor and obey my parents before I know Jesus, but not worry about after? I shouldn’t kill anyone before I accept Jesus, but afterward it really doesn’t matter? If He wants me to keep the Sabbath before I know Jesus, why not after?

Check out Paul’s more complete explanation of the relationship between God’s law and grace in Rom 7:7-8:11. Let me know what you think.

- Re: Should the sabbath be kept? from Name Withheld, 1/3/2010

then by what you are saying pastor Shayne, we live by the law. But what about the passages in the bible that talk about other things? such as Galatians 5:19-21? If you live by the spirit, you will know these things. And also, by what you are saying, the Israelites would have been sent to hell if they did not keep the ceremonial laws! Remember Galations 3:25. So you are saying that this verse does NOT relate to the ten commandments. Then if what you are saying is true, if one didn't wear tassels on his robe, he would be sent to hell. Our God requires faith, not tradition.

- Re: Should the sabbath be kept? from PastorShayne, 1/8/2010

I am not saying we live BY the law, but I guess you could say that I believe we live IN the law. Please understand this: because you keep the 10 doesn’t mean that you believe you are saved by them.

Most parents have rules they expect their kids to obey. However, the kids aren’t part of the family ‘cause they keep the rules. It is the parent’s choice that makes them part of the family, but the rules still apply. It is kinda like that with us and God. We are saved (made part of His family) by what He did, but our relationship & love for Him grow and are shown by our obedience. Obedience to what? Obedience to His expressed will, “If you love me, keep my commands” (Jn 14:21, 1 Jn 5:3).

- Re: Should the sabbath be kept? from PastorShayne, 1/8/2010

God’s law was never an addon, the 10 were never a short -term fix while the world waited for Jesus to come and die.

But from the beginning, the 10 have always been the standard for living in a loving relationship with God. He didn’t say, “Well ‘cause you all are doing wrong I have some rules here to make you right.”

No, even before sin, the 10 defined what it meant to respond to God in love.

And it has always been by grace & faith that people have been able to live in that standard.

- Re: Should the sabbath be kept? from PastorShayne, 1/8/2010

Although the 10 are not specifically mentioned until Moses & Israel, we can safely assume that God expressed His law to everyone before that time. Otherwise how would they know right from wrong?

If sin is breaking God’s law, with the ultimate result being death, how could God flood the world for something it didn’t know? Why were Sodom & Gomorrah destroyed (see Gen 18:20)? Why were sacrifices offered?

These assume there was a law to keep. And don’t forget that the Sabbath was given before there were any Israelites within a few 1000 years.

- Re: Should the sabbath be kept? from PastorShayne, 1/8/2010

And it seems that the 10 will continue to be the standard for living in a loving relationship with God thru the end of time. Rev describes God's loyal people as, “those that keep His commandments and have the faith of Jesus” (Rev 12:17, 14:12). I like that picture, it shows people who keep God's law AND are saved by faith in Jesus!

Now let’s back way up and come at this from another angle. To do this, tell me: do you believe that we don’t have to keep the 10 any longer, or that we don’t have to keep the Sabbath any longer?

- Re: Should the sabbath be kept? from imforgiven, 3/3/2010

Jesus said "if you love me keep my commandments" John 14:15 And "By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God , and keep his commandments" 1 john 5:2